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Employer is saying I quit and I didn't.

by crystal
(California)

Employer is saying I quit and I didn't.


I was fired from my last job because I requested that my schedule be changed because I was having transportation issues. I requested a transfer or for my schedule to be temporarily revised until I could get my transportation issues together. My boss said no and fired the first time I had to call in. I tried everything to get to work including walk but it was way to far two cities over. Now the unemployment people are asking for a phone interview and asking me to be prepared to answer questions on why I quit. I didn't quit though. My employer told me she didn't think it was going to work out and said she thought I had an attitude. She text this to me. I apologized and told her I didn't have an attitude and maybe that was hard to tell in in a text and that I looked forward to speaking to her about the situation face to face to this she never gave a response. I told her I could show up for my morning shift the next day and she never did respond. I text her and told her combined with her saying it wasn't going to work and her lack of response I was inclinded to believe I was fired or did she want me to come in she said don't come. I asked if she was firing me and she did not respond. So I don't know what I was to presume by her saying she didn't think it was going to work out but she put I quit. Which I didn't I pleaded with her through the texts. Will I be denied unemployment for being fired for calling in one time and if not if she lied about me quiting will unemployment deny my claim. Also are text conversations permitted as evidence? I don't know what to do because I drew a conclusion based on what she said but I don't know if her saying it is not going to work out for me to see if I was fired that is why I checked if she still wanted me to come in the next day and she told me not to come. The ladies at work said they saw me scratched off the schedule so I don't see how she could get that I quit. I believe she is lying intentionally.



Hi Crystal,

You have texts (make them hard copies and ask the phone interviewer where to fax them) and you have the truth, The unemployment dept. likes proof that clearly shows what the truth is. Proof is usually seen on a hard copy of something. It is possible that you may be denied as a quit because of your transportation problems .. and the
fact that you didn't show up to work that day .. but still, it is at an unemployment hearing where factual testimony, and again, your texts can be presented in such a way that what has to first be addressed is whether it was a quit or a discharge .. There's lots of precedents that address just this issue. So the moving party and the burden is assigned to the correct party. That's what you need to show .. that the employer's actions indeed, amounted to a discharge while you were trying to seek "temporary" accommodation for your transportation problems.

This is also, another opportunity for me to explain why I write about unemployment hearings as if they are a foregone conclusion and what screws things up for many unemployed people.

The claims department has to review every single claim and make an initial determination as quickly as possible ..

It is both time constraints and that people lie out of desperation and don't always understand that paper proof is what backs up what they say .. that there will be erroneous findings by the claims department.

When a lie can be proven to be a lie .. it damages the liar's credibility. So don't lie, but focus on what are the strengths of your case.

Do I believe it is possible that a manager would text you to come in for a meeting and then tell you not to come in in a conversation to justify a way to make it seem like you quit and to do so intentionally? Yes. But, do you really think you will be able to convince those people that saw your name scratched off the schedule to testify on your behalf? It's a big problem for claimants.

Let me just put it this way .. that is why I could only make this website for the unemployed four or so years ago.

Employing units don't lie .. that's an entity, it is the people that bring them to life that lie. People cheat, manipulate and perjure themselves.

Some are called supervisor, manager, boss man and even unemployment claimant.

So, maybe I'm skewed, but I have this expectation that when a person has any amount of authority over others in the workplace, it is their behavior and actions that should be held to the highest of standards. Many state unemployment laws employ something called "liberal construction". The laws are supposed to be liberally construed in the favor of the person applying for benefits.

Doesn't always seem that way to me .. so I'm very focused on providing proof to eliminate the need for anyone to liberally construe anything.

Yet it was that lies and manipulation prevailed in more cases than I could stand .. so I decided to do my best to level the game field.

Chris



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Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Quitting vs. Being Fired
by: Chris - Unemployment-Tips.com

Hi 80665,

Please know I understand why it's easy to just be upset when employers do this sort of thing .. but I also know being upset, is why it's also important you look at the your own unemployment insurance claim in a different way and with a certain amount of objectivity to see the weaknesses that might exist in the argument to a burden of proof, just to plan how and what you may potentially need to argue with regard to the relevant facts, to the best of your own ability.

My advice, is to rewrite your story for your own self, without the frustration I'm sensing, and focus on both the burden of quitting you'd be assigned, good cause or fault being attributable to the employer for altering the original terms and condition of employment, if the employer was simply refusing to listen to your reasons for objecting to your shift being changed, or the cause they were going to terminate you for on that form.

I'd tell you more about thinking of ways to rebut being fired for misconduct, but the only potential misconduct you mentioned for me to sink my teeth into, was your refusal to sign the write-up.. because I know and have gone on about this in other Q&As, can be twisted into the only winnable argument for some terminations if the discharge ends up being for insubordination when an upset employee actually does refuse to sign a form which is a reasonable directive because most write up forms allow for employee comments and it's possible to effectively rebut misconduct right there on the form making an employer think twice about submitting it to an unemployment department.

Confusing to ponder, I agree. But confusion is just another reason to set feelings aside and be objective about how you can affect this stuff, to works out in the end for your own benefit.
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Employer lying
by: 80665_OKC

Hi. I found your page while searching what to do about my old employer lying about firing me. I live in Oklahoma City I worked at my job for 7 months and 3 days. I'm embarrassed to say such a short time. My back history with jobs are 7-9 years. This last place was a nightmare. So I filed for unemployment and they are fighting it. Said I quit when they called me to come to his office, I get there and have to wait for him to get back with another manager to talk to me. He says he's changing the schedule to a time he knows I can't work bc I take my son to school. One min he would be understanding about me not being able to work that shift then the next an a$$. So he knew exactly what he was doing. I said you know I can't work that shift. He said well that's the shift. So I said, so you're firing me? He said guess so. Pulled the papers he already had with him. Terminated me. I start to leave but go back in for a copy. He turned it in to HR but changed it to voluntary after I left! I told HR it was a lie so she told me to go get with him again. I said this is a lie I want another form. I did not quit. He starts saying oh then I have to write you up and names off like 4-5 things that are ridiculous. Flat out ridiculous. I tell him why those things won't work and he would go to the next thing. He signs the new termination paper then tried to hand me a write up sheet. I sign and take a pic of the new termination sheet and tell him I'm not signing the write ups bc it's bull. I think they turned in the first sheet that was a lie. I'm scared bc the new sheet wasn't completely filled out. It had my name, date and both our signatures... I leave. My car was broke down and I was using a work car so i had no car now. They guy who gave me a ride home literally said to me, you know they gave me your job right? So they gave my job away before I was fired. This has been the absolute worst company I have ever worked for. I worked my butt off. I had guys telling me is I could get fired bc I worked so hard then anyone could up there. My old boss fired me bc of anger. Many times I had to ask him not to talk down to me like he did. I got fired bc he was mad at me over another issue I had with him prior bc he screamed in my face to go home. I put up with so much from this place. I am so fed up and worn out over this. My wife and my car both broke down at the same time so they were letting me use a car and we bought a car for my wife. (It's a car dealership)We haven't even made the first payment yet and they fire me. Why would I quit when I have a brand new car payment. And my car is broke down. I had plans to fix it there. They know all this and just don't care enough not to lie. It's like they have it out for me. Another thing. I got $500 discount when I bought the car for being an employee, and the car we got was zero down. Surprise surprise after they fired me they start calling saying "the bank now wants $500 down for the car" shocker. Fire me, then ask me for $500. We got the car we're in bc it's zero down. Sorry I'm rambling... I'm just trying to show what kind of ppl they are.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Deceiving and Descised
by: Anonymous

First off thanks for your testimony it's really good to see someone seek justice after being involved with such a burden. I recently filed for unemployment i was asked by manager threw text to turn in my keys next time i work. Then i was told my coworker that i was not on the schedule anymore. The human resource manager ask me to work i came to work turn in my keys i asked for explanation nobody told me nothing. Human resource manager asked me to work following weekend and promise me a rotation shift. She then texted me days before shift that she hired someone and she would let me know when next opening would come available threw text message. I didn't reply i figured something is weird taking place. So i filed for unemployment i was contacted by human resource manager the day of decision for my claim. She asked me did i think i was fired i replied no i did nothing to be fired but my keys was taken and my name tooken off schedule and that she took my hours she promised me and asked me to work threw text with my reply yes ill work before cutting me off. She replied would you like me to terminate you so you can get unemployment i replied no i sayed obviously im layed off. I reached the unemployment office for results they stated that my job has protested my claim. I was furious by the fact of the call i got plus evidence i have threw text message cleary proving i was not wrong. The company claimed i quit but i never quit now my rent is due i did nothing wrong i been loyal worked hard and this is how im treated. Amazing how a company could lie use slander over something they could have fixed now im suffering for nothing.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Employers a will lie
by: Anonymous

I understand exactly where you're talkin about I was fired from my job and my boss said that I quit so I apply for unemployment and I was determined ineligible ineligible because my boss said I quit the referee went on what my boss said and not me they had no proof of me indicating I quit all what's hearsay and I don't think that's right something really need to be done about that
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starstarstarstarstar 		Appeal Hearing
by: Anonymous

I was wrongfully terminated from my job and have documentation to prove it I also have written statements that I believe was the reason of my termination and more so a vendetta I applied for unemployment I received a notices with a appeal hearing from my employer they are lying about me saying you don’t have to fire me I quit! Would my documents be enough to prove they have every reason to lie ? Can they actually stop my benefits with he say she say ? I don’t know what to do.



Hi,
If you have documentation to prove the necessary point that you were fired (burden to prove misconduct would then be the employer's) vs quitting, which makes the burden yours to prove fault for quitting was that of the employer's, then can it be a he said/ she said situation?

When testimony is all there is at a hearing, the decision of the hearing officer comes down to what they believe was the most credible testimony, as they are allowed wide discretion to determine which side had the most credible story (testimony).

If you have documentation can prove a discharge and the cause as being some sort of unreasonable vendetta against you by the employer, or a boss acting as an agent of the employer, then make certain you follow hearing instructions to submit it for use at the hearing .. so it can become a part of the record, which is the purpose of all unemployment appeal hearings .. to create a FULL record of relevant facts on which the decision is made.
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starstarstarstarstar 		My husband isn't on payroll
by: Anonymous

My husband isn't the one on payroll but i managed to get fired because my supervisor can't get along with him. Week by week she had him running errands and all of a sudden gets mad at me because he chooses not to do what she asked. This week he was not wanting to have any interaction with her good or bad so strategy clear of her but she came to me and wanted to know why he was disappearing like a previous employer which we all thought was wrong comparing one to another.


Hi Anonymous,

Your employer then, couldn't of fired you for work misconduct, because your husband (free labor, but not an at will employee) didn't show up to work and be the boss's errand boy .. even if she is now saying you voluntarily quit .. by what? Job abandonment?

I literally wouldn't expect an employer such as your former one, to fess up when telling why you became unemployed, to the unemployment insurance agency after notice of claim filed is sent to expect a response from the employer, that actually pays through higher unemployment taxes .. any benefits you SHOULD receive.

The free advice I have for these sorts of circumstances that prompt employers to lie, is to hold back and listen before you talk during the initial adjudication interview, while you keep front and center in your own mind, that your claim means the UI dept. also knows it's the employer with the initial burden to prove you were guilty of work misconduct .. not your husband, who didn't show up and who wasn't being compensated for any work he might of done for her out of his concern .. for what, I don't know.

But that scenario would be part of an argument to suggest to the adjudicator, an alternative motive for firing you and for what any reasonable employer absolutely, has no right to expect of an employee, to maintain their continuing employment with her.

So no, on the surface of things, I don't think you manage to get fired, but I might think your boss is one of those self-entitled nut job, who isn't above misrepresenting fact in an effort to deny benefits.

Just my own personal opinion .. of course

Chris - Unemployment-Tips.com
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Have you received any benefits prior to week of 4/18 - 4/25?
by: Chris

Anonymous,

As you will notice, I changed the title for your comment from "Loves" because it made no sense to the question you were asking about your unemployment claim.

Did you receive the initial non-monetary (separation issues) determination after the phone interview?

It also annoys me when someone asks a questions, or makes a comment and doesn't tell me what state we're discussing benefits from .. because it can be an integral bit of info relevant to even this issue, a voluntary quit without good cause due to job abandonment.


I can't tell you what to do. Nor if there is anything for you to do at this point, because you also didn't share the circumstances under which you, or the employer might of separated you from the employment.

Frankly, it makes sense to me that an employer would code you out of their system if you didn't show up for work and also didn't call in for one .. preferably two days. Two days sort of helps to clinch it was a voluntary quit by job abandonment, unless you tell me there might of been compelling reasons for not calling in that made it something beyond your control.

So all I've got to say is if any of the above rings a bell for you, then no, it's not a discharge merely because they took you out of the system if the cause was not calling in, or notifying your employer you would not be showing up for work. That is a VQJA .. unless you provide me some information that helps to explain to the contrary why the employer is the one off their rocker.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Don't you think I was fired?
by: Anonymous

I was getting my UI benefits but haven't received the one for 18 through the 25 of April cause my employer said I abandoned my job.. But it wasn't like that they took me out of the system prettyi much they fired me... What should I do... I already had the phone interview they just told to wait for a decision to me made
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starstarstarstarstar 		For Carol who didn't quit her job
by: Chris

I do not claim to know how worker comp works, but that doesn't mean I don't know enough to not be having a problem with the fact you claim you're receiving those benefits, but still work too many hours at that part-time job .. to not have any hours available to work at the part-time job your employer is saying you quit.

Either something is amiss and possibly very wrong here, or you may just need to explain your situation a bit better before I will even bother to answer you with something that may help you understand how unemployment benefits work ..

By the way as it states on the main unemployment question & answer page where you can find more to read ..

New questions must be submitted here.
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starstarstarstarstar 		my boss said I quit but I didnt
by: carol

I have two part time jobs. One that gives me more hours than the other. There are times I do not have any hours to devote to the second job because of the first job. When this happens I let my manager know. I called the other day to let them know that I could give them the amount of hours I could work.

My department manager said I needed to talk to the store manager he was wondering if I was putting in my resignation.

I told her that if they needed to let me go because I was not able to work the hours they needed I understood this but I was not going to quit. Since I have workmans comp from another job if I quit my current job I will lose all benefits. she said you need to talk to the manager.

when I called and talked to the manager he said that my department manager said I had already quit. now I don't know what to do I did not quit he will not change the records that States I quit, he will not put any notes in there saying I dispute it. I have googled trying to find someplace to go that can give me some information on what I can do about the situation. does it make sense that I would quit my job lose any kind of benefits that I might be getting compensation for without having another job lined up? Help
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starstarstarstarstar 		Cussed out?
by: Chris

Hey Anonymous,

Yes, I agree it would suck to be cussed out after working my butt off for 16 hours, but then again, being cussed out doesn't necessarily indicate you were fired .. or what you may of been fired for.
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starstarstarstarstar 		i didn't quit , my employer clims i did
by: Anonymous

I was singled out one : the front desk manager and desk clerk causing the unnecessary verbal abuse are related
The Boss was in India , his wife , to my understanding is above saw the condition of the lobby and all the tasks that had not been done.i was cussed out by the cousin , after I had worked my butt off in the 16 hour shift I worked
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Wow
by: Chris

I love this feeling so much, it almost puts me at a loss for words:)

I'm always struck by how powerful simple words of gratitude can be.. in a good and humbling way, of course.

In return, I'll spread this feeling around and pay some gratitude foward.
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		helpful is not even the word
by: Anonymous

Thank you so much for this page. I found this two or so years ago and I've had pleasant experiences. I have told friends about your site and they have been helped. I just needed to say thank you. Your stand to help others has definitely paid off...I am grateful. I am employed and have been consistently and when I wasn't this helped. Thank you. You change people's lives and it's a good thing.

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