tardiness

I worked for a trucking company in PA for about 18 months ….upon getting hired I explained that I was a single dad of a 4 year old and that he was in daycare that was open 24 hours and that his mom was deported and that the daycare was my only means to watch my son and that I had no family in the area……the owner also said that it was fine because I would be home everynight and that I could take the truck and trailer home but to leave the trailer on the companies lot…..where the loads were picked up….everything was going well for a few months until other drivers found out I was taking the truck home and now they wanted to take there tractors home but I lived a hour away from the home base but 5 minutes from where the trailers were loaded and the others lived more than a hour away but were employed longer than me so the owner said no one can take the tractors home any longer…..because of this the job became to difficult…….I explained to my employer that I can’t keep my son in daycare more than 10 to12 hours and it takes me at least five hours to drive from home a hour and get the truck and almost a hour to pretrip the tractor and fuel and then drive 20 minutes to where the trailers are stored and pretrip the trailer and drive a hour to where the trailers are loaded and its first come first serve. Ive waited as long as 4 hours just to get loaded and then drive to my destination which on most days takes 4 hours ….when I first started I drove home as I stated earlier and loaded the trailer and dropped it at the customers lot and went home …..all I had to do the following day was pretrip and roll….I feel like I was lied to about what my duties were when I was hired and the carpet was pulled from under my feet to be put in a situation that that was not fair for me and my son when I just left the job I was at for the same reason and I was written up for being late and finally fired about 10 months later and my unemployment was denied but I just appealed….and I plan to have a attorney…do u think I have a chance to win…thanks

Hi,

Yes, I do think you have a chance, but it depends on the state and whether the verbal agreement made between you and the employer at time of hire is found to be a credible assertion and that the real problem was a change to the conditions of hire that no longer offered the childcare accommodation.

Hi, I was fired from my job of a little over a year, for being late a few times. The reason I was my spouse was diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer which required cemotherapy for six months. I wrote a letter to the manager to let her know and also informed her that I would be taking my spouse to the doctors. The manager did not respond. A month later I wrote another letter to the manager about giving up my car so I could use the money towards the medical bills which started piling up. That would make me have one car to go back and forth. I was working part time. Schedule was very inconsistent so I asked the supervisor to adjust my schedule so I could take my spouse to her job, then go to my job. The manager did not do anything for me. A week before I was fired, the manager told me that she got the go ahead from the district manager to adjust my schedule. This was five months after I made the request. I filed foe unemployment which the employer contested. I appealed and waiting for a hearing. Ist’nt there a law that protects employees from unfair termination if the employee or a loved one has a serious medical condition?

The law that protects a job in your situation is FMLA, but that is only when there is 50 or more employees. Other than than .. the documentation you created requesting accommodations from the employer to deal with these circumstances caused by your spouse’s serious health condition .. was the proper thing to do.

Use them to show you were acting reasonably and responsibly to keep your job.

The burden of proof for a discharge will always be with the employer and if the discharge was for attendance issues due to the health needs of your spouse there would have to be some form of irresponsibility on your part to prove your actions amounted to work related misconduct.

I was fired due to
being 5-10 min late 3 times. I can not hear my alarms. I have 3 alarms set and sleep through them. I have a sleep disorder and getting checked by the doctor. Could I still get unemployment due to my condition ?

Maybe .. if you break out the medical documentation showing the tardiness was beyond your control due to a verified health condition that the employer was made aware of.

Did you ever request accommodation from the employer for your problem?

Hi CeeCee,

I have addressed this issue of not signing write ups many time.

Not signing .. is dependent on the small print on the form as to whether your signature is indication of agreement with what is written or just an indication that you have been notified by the employer.

When it is the latter, a refusal to sign could be cause for termination on the grounds of insubordination.

Regardless, my position on this write up thing when an employee “disagrees” or thinks it’s unfair .. is to counter document and explain why they feel so in detail.

Get a copy of the form or at least a copy of your written disagreement which also requests that the response be attached to the write up dated –/–/—-.

This isn’t really all that difficult to do, if you understand that at will employment is just self employment with one proviso ..

You’ve given up the right to direct and control when you work and how you work .. the control is in the hands of the employer.

But this does not mean the employer can be unreasonable enforcing their authority over you.

So .. after many years of seeing that employees are intimidated and threatened in not only subtle, but outright unacceptable and illegal ways .. I’d say pressure, stress or ignoring the need to gain a modicum of power in the at will employment relationship .. rest solely upon the employees shoulders.

It’s the choice many make, not because they fear the employer, but they fear losing the paycheck.

A fair employer will not use that paycheck to extort unreasonable obedience, but when they do .. the real problem begins with the limited choices the employee can see.

I started a job commision based only with limited walk in. husband an wife couple. Hired by wife and from day one husband was giving me a look as if he was studying my every move . I had an appointment to an orthodontist in another city which is an hour an 30 minutes away give or take according to traffic. I gave a three day notice to have that day off. I also had a prescheduled appointment, with my regular client that I followed me from another job that I brought to the business on that day of my appointment. and I ask the boss to reschedule it for another day because he schedule the all the appointments. The boss came back to me immediatley after calling the customer right away and said the customer can’t make the appointment for saturday because she go to church he did not try any other day. so I felt pressured to come in that day after my daughters appointment to the othodontist and and gave a round about time for him to schedule the appointment. I said maybe about 2:30pm or 3:00pm because we close at five the boss schedule for 2:30 pm, and on that day I was running late I under estimate the time frame and the wait for the doctors visit. So I call the customer up and let her know I was running behind and she said thats fine. I got ther about 15 to 20min late and gave th client goos customer service. The next day of my work day my boss say that he is going to write me up for being late and coming out of dress code. he wrote me up and ask me to sign it I refuse to because I thought it was un fair he said okay. 13 days later I got sick, and could not show up for work I called in sick 30 min in advance, because I had to wait for the business to open they open at 9:00am but I call at 8:30am. I went to see the doctor, and my next day of work I was ask to come to the back and I did and he said do you have a doctors note and I went and got it for him. Then he went to the front, and got the old write up from 14 days ago and said you need to sign this or you don’t have a job I stated I thought we already dealt with that and he said he needed me to sing that to cover his ass. I did not sign it an he let me go. I live in Florida am I eliglble for unemployment I have not completed my 90 day probationary period that he had me sign when I started.

The company I worked for has a policy about being over 5 mins late .. after 3 times you get a final warning, than once more with 1 year of the first occurance would mean termination. Here is my dilema; The day I received my final I was late due to there being a rollover on the freeway and police directed everyone to get off the freeway one exit early. I was not familier with this exit and I went 5 miles out of way to get to work. Others at my place of employment backed me up on the rollover, but because I clocked in 7 mins late (2 mins past the 5 minute grace period) I was put on a final warning. A week later my daughter ran away, I stayed up most of the night worried, and slept through the alarm by an hour. I called when I woke up and got there as soon as possible. My supervisor knew I was having problems with my daughter lately but took me to human resources, where I told them this should be my final because I couldnt control the previous write up due to the freeway detour from the police. I was told they were going to terminate me anyway. I told the human resource lady that I didnt think I should be fired and if unemployment asks me why I dont work there, Im going to say I was laid off. She said “thats fine” so I did. 3 months later they are fighting my claim and I am waiting 2 weeks now, broke as a joke for an answer.. what are my chances? I told the employment division guy the same thing. I live in NV.

I think you shot yourself in the foot.

I don’t play the game of “what are my chances” anymore that everyone seems to want to insist on.

It’s usually a futile exercise until I can actually evaluate what happened, but in your case .. you lied about the reason for separation to get benefits in the first place.

Dumb move.

Chris

Hi, i was fired for being late a couple of times and finally fired on my third time being late. I filed for unemployment and was denied because my employer said i was fired for “being absent without permission”. This is clearly not what happened. However, i was late 3 times, i called in advance. I was late because of an accident that occurred on the freeway twice and on the final incident, i was late because my car keys broke and so i had to wait for a replacement. I called my supervisor about 5 mins late because i had to charge my phone but he said okay and to just come in whenever i could. after i called him to inform him that i had found a replacement keys, he told me not to come in because the manager said he called someone else in.

the company policy is that we are given a warning then written up at which time we are placed on a 60 probation period and if we make the same mistake within that period we are terminated.

I am appealing my case, but what advice do you have about my case and the appeal and with your experience you you feel that i will win my case.

Hi,

Please take the time to search the many questions that have already been asked about being discharged for a violation of attendance policies.

The concept should be made clear after reading a few.

When circumstances are beyond your control .. there is always a possibility that you might win.

But documentation that proves the circumstances were reasonably beyond your control is what can clinch it for you.

I didn’t really see a situation presented by you that falls into the clinching mode.

Not unless you were personally involved in the two accidents on the freeway and could provide a police report.

As for the replacement keys which was the final incident .. did you have to call a locksmith .. and therefore have a receipt to prove the situation .. and that you acted responsibly by making this costly attempt to get to work on time?

I was given the reason for my termination as excessive tardiness. I had been tardy a few times but never more than 5-10 minutes and always called to let someone know. Here is where i feel the employer has no legal cause to deny my benefits.
I was never warned about my tardiness and NEVER WRITTEN UP. NOT ONCE. AND NO ONE AT ANY TIME GAVE ME ANY REPRIMAND SINCE EACH INCIDENT WAS REASONABLE AND I NOTIFIED MY EMPLOYER WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE POSSIBILITY THAT I MIGHT BE A FEW MINUTES LATE. EACH TIME MY PHONE CALL TO MANAGER WAS RECEIVED AND TARDINESS WAS APPROVED AND EXCUSED.

Hi,

Sounds good to me, but if the employer has a policy that says you are supposed to be warned about tardiness .. it would be even better for you.

Chris

I just got involuntarily terminated from my job yesterday. I was put on final warning the first week in October from my company for my tardiness adn was told I needed to be on time to work and that if anything happened again I would be terminated. On Friday, I called my manager to take a personal and there was no answer so I left a message. I called back and she still didn’t pick up so I left another message stating I would call and try to speak to someone else on the phone personally so they would know where I was. She called me back as soon as I left that message and insisted that I didn’t call and wanted to know where I was. After meeting with my manager and human resources I was told that employees are able to call cell and work phone numbers since our manager gave us both, but a message isn’t sufficient. We have to speak to someone personally. I looked at my phone log and noticed that I had been calling my boss’s cell phone and leaving her messages, honest mistake. I have all of her numbers under one record in my phone. Should I still try and file for unemployment since they are denying my attempt to contact them? Will it hurt to file?

Hi,

It never hurts to file .. all they can tell you is no.

Another question to be concerned with is .. Why were you late?

I work at a group home and at my home the manager just started to reinforce the tardiness policy. I work and go to school fulltime and take care of my son. I have been very depressed for over 2 years since my daughter passed and everything seems to come crashing down. Being tardy 3 times within 4 months means that I will be fired. I’ve been 45 min late twice already due to oversleeping. Its not on purpose but I can’t seem to get up. Im just very depressed and I don’t know what to do. I am very scared that I may lose my job.

Hi,

I think you may need to go to a doctor. Find out if the depression has anything to do with your oversleeping .. maybe you have a hard time going to sleep due to the depression .. a sleep disorder.

My point is .. you must intervene on your own behalf. Currently, as you have related your story I see nothing that might help you get unemployment benefits if you are fired.

If you seek medical help you might find that there is a physical reason that causes you to oversleep .. this might enable you to get FMLA to protect your job until such time as you can get the problem under control.

You should also go to your employer and tell them what is going on. Ask them what you need to do to initiate FMLA .. let them know about your depression. Make the employer aware.

I share a vehicle that doesn’t stay running most of the time and we have a kid so things are super tight in our home right now so there is no funds to replace the vehicle and i have told my work of this and I also have memory problems lately and keep getting days and weeks confused my doc wants me to do an MRI. I work for a group home for mentally disabled adults. Well I have had attendance issues b/c of the car situation and some days i cant go to trainings b/c i dont have a sitter her dad works days and i work nights with no baby sitters.. Well i got wrote up 2 weeks ago and i was told any more attendance issues with training or work and i would be terminated. So can i still get unemployment? I just missed a training on friday due to not being able to keep the days straight i have told my employer about this a few weeks ago but at that time my doc n i thought i was just not organized enough but its still happening obviously.. So I am expecting to be fired on monday if not tuesday b/c the training was at 8am friday morning and i missed it and didnt call and they consider that a no call no show here. Um I am not sure what else to tell ya about it..

Hi,

You’ve got problems then. Irregardless of the reason you are having attendance problems it is still your responsibility to follow the employer’s procedures for notifying them you cannont come to work. A failure to do so is misconduct or a voluntary quit by job abandonment.

There are other questions I would have to ask you .. about your employers rules, whether you could or should request FML for the “health issues”, whether you are required to attend training at 8am after working all night, whether you have exhausted all efforts to find childcare for the training .. etc., but ultimately car problems, disorganization, and failure to adhere to the attendance call-off procedure are disqualifying acts and not considered good excuses.

First thank you so much for helping me out so much tiswebsite is god sent and i have been reading almost everyones Q AND A and you really give great advise. second when you mention my jobs attendence policy and the way they handle if they want to write you up is not written. when i first got hired this is what happen( my employment is a low budget adlut bookstore) so when I was getting hired i walked in to my bosses office and he told me about his self and i tld him about me and then he said that the other employer would show me the ropes and what time to be their and thats it but i didnt have that same boss after a year my other boss went to higher management so we got someone else but he did nothing by giving new notice of policy’s so should i tell the ALJ that how would i prove that. sorry to bug you again this will be it.

Now you need to remember that you were fired. It’s the employer that needs to do the proving that you were fired for misconduct. The lack of a written policy isn’t necessarily a bad thing for you .. and it certainly doesn’t help the employer out that they have nothing to show that you were made aware of a policy that told you what you could expect or made aware of the thing that could jeopardize your job if you broke one of those rules.

Additionally, the judge is going to be very interested in the “final incident”. Let’s say you were tardy for reasons that could be considered misconduct .. and the employer did all the right things and wrote you up according to their policy (which your employer didn’t have).

The employer told you one more tardy and you will be fired.

But as bad luck would have it your ex drops the kids off with you for whatever reason .. leaving you in a predicament. You have no choice, but to call the employer and tell them you’re going to be late .. even though you know you might be fired, but here’s the thing .. what reasonable person is going to leave their kids alone .. to rush off to work so they won’t get fired for being tardy??

You will be testifying to the event that caused the employer to fire you. Your job is to offer the truthful testimony that explains why the tardy was beyond your control. You told the employer what was going on .. those still fired you, but it wasn’t for a reason that is misconduct.

Do you understand?

Chris

I have a hearing next week in california where i am from and i need to know what exactly to bring when i go. i know i have to bring evidence to support my case but what i have is the referal sheet from the job sstating that i was only written up once for two days in febuary and i was fired in march, also irequested the case file from the appeals office, and i have statements saying that i called in that day three or four times to let them know what was going on and to make sure they had someone covring my shift. I know that i have to prove that i didnt have misconduct connected with my most recent work. what else should i have.

The attendance policy and the progressive discipline policy .. if they help!! and when you give testimony .. answer the questions .. do not go on and on. Listen to the instructions of that ALJ and it’s not a bad idea to have a pad for taking notes of key points you’d like to raise about the other sides testimony on cross examination. It’s informal, but it is a hearing.

Bring three copies of everything you would like to submit as evidence. One for yourself, the ALJ and the opposing party.

And try to stay relaxed and don’t let anyone get you riled up:)

Focus on the final occurrence. That’s your strongest point because the tardy was beyond your control and no reasonable person is going to leave their child unattended to get to work on time.

I live in California, when I got hired they just told me what the rules were no paper signing nothing about tardiness just try to be their on time and that was with my first boss then after a year of me working their another boss came in and he started telling us different ways of doing things but the reason why i was fired was because they said to many tardies but i got written up once a week before i was fired about tardines and then a time before that because i wrote down the wrong time i came in on the time sheet and that was it. but the final straw was I called in to work because i had my daughter and my babysiter never showed up. so when i did my claim i was denied. The reason they gave was late without permission.

Hi,

If you told the employer about the childcare problem and they fired you for that .. you should be able to get unemployment in California.

If you told the state during your interview why you were late and they denied you .. that just stinks that they denied you benefits. File and appeal. Because the tardiness was beyond your control.