Fired For Marking Down Dounuts to Buy for Myself
I was fired for marking down donuts. I was just wondering, I got Terminated. I worked in the deli where my deli manager pulled out of date stuff everyday and counted it as throwaways.
Some of the stuff, such as donuts and certain other stuff like that, were still good, but she told us we could put a little price on it and take it home. I did this twice the whole five years I worked there.
I have never gotten wrote up, never gotten in any trouble. I did a lot for them while I was employed there. I never missed work. I always came in on my day off, and the reason they denied me unemployment was work related misconduct. Can they do that.Answer
Yes, and not only can the state deny unemployment benefits when you violate a written and known rule of the employer .. especially, one you've been warned about previously, but again when you choose to ignore and break the rule again and the new documentation references the first warning .. but now, the consequence is termination.
We've got pattern established .. and no mention of counter documenting your reasoning .. that it's all because the supervisor is the culprit for your misconduct because she did her job .. and gave permission.
Objectively speaking, it does not matter what you've done for the employer in the past, nor that you came to work everyday on time .. not if you're somehow costing them money in the form of shrinkage to their perishable merchandise.
An Employer can't deny someone for misconduct if they only find and focus on what made a person .. also a desirable employee.
Not when their burden of proof in a termination is to convince the unemployment department you don't deserve benefits because of just one thing you did do .. caused or could of caused .. egregious harm to the employer's interest.
For the state to deny benefits when someone is fired, they have to see the final incident as an act of misconduct.
Employers are in business to make money ..
What if every employee in the world thought it was okay or took liberty with a one time permission to markdown a fresh doughnut .. because they taste better than a stale doughnut?
Face it .. the financial loss could be huge even if it sounds petty, because you're only thinking about one doughnut.
So, you probably want to know if you can win if you appeal because it's already been established .. that they, the employer and the UI dept., can do what they did.
Let me ask .. are you willing to start thinking or revealing any information that might be helpful to know if there's an objective and ethical way to win?
Focus on how you will prove, that what you did, did not cause harm to the employer intentionally.
Or, at least how the employer may of had to ignore one of their own rules and discharged you without sufficient written warning?.
To be objective, I'd rather hear a brutally honest recounting of all the details leading to termination including
your discipline history.
And to know what the employer rules were.
Especially the one you were fired for.
No matter .. I'll take a stab and guess Violation of the discount policy .. it doesn't really matter to the concept I'm trying to get across here.
I assume you were fired for marking down the employer's stale or not, perishable products for your own purchase ..
I know nothing of what led us to this point. which is where detailed information lies about the employer's ability to prove their burden..
Conceptually there are ways to destroy a burden of proof, rather than prove your innocence of wrongdoing. This is also what truly upsets employers and I can't say that I blame them except when they go off the cliff and start fighting unethically .. like post misconduct documentation creation to fill in the burden or devising a lie and getting some weak minded employee to corroborate.
Whether the truth is .. what is on your side or not .. is the unemployment department rules of evidence regarding proving a burden .. or rebutting one .. This is what allows for a person to make legitimate appeal arguments. Whether those are dependent on a lie or not .. is precisely what I cannot accept as a fact of life.
The burden of the employer is to make sure an employees actions RISE to meet at least some aspect of the definition of misconduct because that's what the state is concerned with.
As you look for that employer policy in your employee handbook, that you were fired for .. here's a few ideas.
Employers tend to code discharges. Most as a general DCVR - Discharge for violation of rules or policies, such as a discount policy.
Or, maybe they might get real specific in the case of doughnut theft .. DCUR - discharge for unauthorized removal.
There's usually a corresponding policy for the different reasons a person may be fired in your employee handbook.
What an employer would never tell the UI dept. if they are going to bother with a protest is all about the irrelevant facts that made you a good employee.
They will use their policies and written warning as prescribed by their progressive discipline policy .. unless they believe your last act was so egregious as to circumvent the policy .. and that might hold up to the reasonable person standard.
You were not fired for being a good employee .. you were fired for what a good employee did wrong per the employer and that was, in their eyes, sufficient.
Why it was also sufficient to establish misconduct with the unemployment department.. I don't know.
Ttell me what I'm missing .. in addition to the one relevant fact that might be worth exploring and digging into. but she told us we could put a little price on it and take it home.
Really? Got a witness willing to testify that the manager condoned, even encourage her subordinates to break know rules and policies?
As a manager .. she does in fact have some amount of discretion when acting as an agent for the employer.