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I got a BAM notice after I had my claim approved then denied after being terminated for attending school

After talking to the representative for my phone interview she was it but contradicting and didn't seem to understand how a dental offices worked.

I told her that I was hired as a part time employee because the office lacked patients therefore they could not offer me a full time position until recently. She then said that on the office website it shows that they are open five days a week.

I once again explain that I was hired for part time back office position which means that if there isn't any patients the back office staff don't go to work.

She then went back to the website, this went on for a while then ended the interview. I called back to speak to her supervisor because I knew that she didn't comprehend what I had said to her, so I repeated my story to him and he seemed to understand.

Then when I started to receive notices of payments but hadn't received any checks or debit card, I called back to ask what was going on. The representative said that my claim was approved starting from the termination date until now because they wrote down that I was not available for full time work therefore my claim is being denied after that end date! A few days after I received a DAM letter with a packet to fill out, I am not sure what happening because I still need to appeal.

This is the reason why I was terminated, after being rehired at a part-time position (even though I was willing to work full-time and drive to their two office locations and since I was cross trained I was more useful) and getting my school scheduled approved.

The doctor said that he needed full time employees starting soon (this Conversation took place on Wednesday), which this made my day because I needed the money. I had only a few weeks till the school semester ended so I knew that I could have modified my finals to accommodate his schedule like I had been sine my rehired date. When I came in on Saturday, he terminated my position asking me if I can start full time that Monday. I told him that
I needed a few days to get my school extension paperwork in to the office while repeating over and over that I was willing to work full time but then he held his hand up and said "yeah yeah but you can't start Monday, so I'm letting you go".

Chris, I don't understand the reason behind this DAM letter or the unclear claim denial. Not sure if I should seek professional help to help me with my claim.
Thank you for having this website and for giving us a peace of mind when it come to some of these questions!

DAM or BAM Letter? And Why I Need You to Designate Which State This is Happening In

Depending on which acronym is correct.. DAM or BAM, would you please spell it out for me anyway so I know what it stands for at least. Don't know what DAM might mean, but BAM to me at least, stands for Benefit Accuracy Measurements.

And the name of the state is ultimately going to be important to me because you tell me the denial was based upon something to do with being a part-time employee.

Therefore, I need to know which state this is all happening in, just so I can check on whether the state has a part-time worker provision that might make a difference. In any case, you just need to appeal any denial determination timely.

There would still be time to discuss whether you need professional help, or just a little free help might be enough for you to help yourself once this is done.

One more thing .. "After talking to the representative for my phone interview she was it but contradicting and didn't seem to understand how a dental offices worked.?

Not sure what you meant to say, but I've got some ideas that your denial had more to do with your employer responding to your claim you had refused full-time work due to school interfering and your answers during the interview must not of gotten across to the interviewer .. or supervisor that you were not restricting yourself then, or now that you're unemployed to "part-time work".

Really .. need the name of the state this is all happening in.

Comments for I got a BAM notice after I had my claim approved then denied after being terminated for attending school

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May 31, 2017
Restricting Availability to Only Part-Time Work
by: Chris -

Let us all understand that restricting one's availability to only part-time work because full-time jobs would interfere with going to school can definitely be disqualifying.

This is literally the primary theme (and sometimes the cause) behind all those Q&As about unemployment benefits while going to school.

It is a conditional eligibility issue when you restrict yourself to part-time work even in a state with a part-time work provision, or just a precedent that interprets a proven history of only working part time that basically overrides to create an exception to the requirement that those who do collect benefits must be able and available for full-time work.

But here's my thing about what you told me. It sounds to me, as if the EDD, based upon the "available information" when they made the determination, (always the basis used to make any initial determination, whether allowing, or denying benefits), was erroneous if you attempted to make clear to that adjudicator that you did not refuse the full-time work, but asked the employer for just a couple days to rearrange your school schedule, so you could work full-time.

Once you establish this .. it's seems reasonable to me the EDD should shift the focus of the burden to prove, back to the employer who discharged you for requesting a couple days to get your house in order, including your school schedule, so you could start working full-time .. would become the lame duck who'd have a difficult time explaining why the request for a couple extra days, you may of actually still been working part-time .. is work related misconduct.

It is important how an unemployed person present the facts, but it still requires some understanding of what facts should be important to that person acting and deciding benefits for the unemployment department should be considering what an unemployed person tells them to explain away an issue with benefits.

It's why I'm sort of a nut for documentation that backs up .. my own story and any other persons story as credible believable facts vs. the fictions an unemployment department employee can choose to believe to support their findings of the facts.

And just so everyone who reads this knows, I also offer fairly priced individual coaching, when I believe in the objective cause of fighting back against erroneous .. in addition to these free general answers to provide insight into how erroneous works.

And by the way .. it's not that I don't like novelas, because they can actually help me to identify an issue .. or a cause for denial and then explore for the potential of resolving the issue.

But it's when providing the novella, instead of rewriting it to relate only the importance of objective and relevant facts to an unemployment department, it's unemployed people who more often than not clutter the issue that can be used by the supposed objective employee of the EDD, or any other acronym for a state unemployment department, to gather how they feel subjectively and use that instead to find a reason to deny benefits .. erroneously.

May 31, 2017
by: Chris, resonpding to your BAM question

The benefit accuracy measurements questionaire form that I received were for "Non-separation denial claims-DE 4250NSD". Which I started to fill out and since I read your advised on the K.I.S.S format, I am reprinting the last in which they want me to explain why "I have placed limits on the hours and days you will work because you were attending school or training" Also, following your advice I have gathered emails in which I had replied to the doctor a few weeks before I was fired explaining my willingness to work fulltime because I knew the office would be busy in summer and my savings were getting low. Not sure if I should send copies of these with the audit or wait till my appeal? The auditor will call on June 5th, to tell you the truth I am a little scared because I have never been through this and on top of my stress comes this audit. I don't want to sound like a Novela cause I know you dislike that but I had to cry this out.

I have my kids and guardianship my sister's children, single and broke. I don't want to say something that I shouldn't and maybe I can take out a loan to pay someone to over look this paperwork? Thank you so much for helping and once again with your response I am able to breath just more and claim down. All I really wanted to do is better myself for the well being of my family and he knew exactly how to get rid of me.

May 30, 2017
I'm not sure, but I don't think the BAM audit caused the denial
by: Chris -

First .. BAM audits are generally conducted by the federal government.

A small sampling of claims, appeals and so forth, is used to gauge accuracy / inaccuracy rates in three major unemployment compensation programs. That leads to results about a bunch of UI program performance metrics that then enable DOLETA, to rate a state unemployment program for the size of the operational grant a state receives each year. (At least this is my understanding). Most people show little interest, however, in how the federal/state partnership works .. unless it happens to them.

I believe it may of just been luck of the draw the the denial coincided with audit. But if it did cause your denial .. that would only draw into question for me .. the quality of the auditing process used.

I think you need to appeal the denial for sure .. because I'm leaning toward agreement with the EDD rep who told you they didn't understand why they would of denied.

1. You were discharged, not because you refused a suitable offer of full-time work, but because that dentist wasn't reasonable to give you a couple days to put your school schedule in order, so you could work full-time.

2. The situation as you presented it here, isn't a voluntary quit, a refusal of suitable work, or a conditional eligibility problem, as when someone collecting benefits may actually be restricting themselves to only part-time employment that doesn't jibe with California law about benefits for part-time work .. also addressed in the resource I've linked to below.

What I would call your job separation is definitely a discharge for something other than work misconduct. And by a dentist who thinks since he knows how to deny benefits by forcing people to quit without proof of good cause, can also take liberty to rearrange the content and intent of a conversation that ended with a discharge for an unreasonable reason when responding to a notice of claim filed against his SUTA.

It's just the sort of stuff that gets me riled up enough to want to help claimants.

But, you probably want to know where I found info to support the idea you should appeal.

I checked with the California Unemployment Insurance Benefit Determination Guide (UIBDG). It's all there anonymous California person. (You should also check the info at TPU 40)

3. The reason I will never stop encouraging people to be represented by a pro, because I don't know any of you well enough to gauge how well you might perform at a hearing.

So .. I most often refer those who can afford representation (the big stumbling block) and know themselves well enough to know when there is a good possibility they might choke during a hearing .. which can be an unpredictable event.

And of course those who simply are not given to making objective arguments focused on how unemployment laws are supposed to work .. anytime, or anywhere.

Should I mention THE OTHER WILDCARD at hearings .. few prepare to cross examine? A small business owner .. or direct witnesses .. most claimants once knew as their boss who fired them .. or made them think they needed to quit.

Once you check out the UIBDG .. you may want to cross reference with precedents published by the California Unemployment Insurance Board of Review.

May 29, 2017
Chris, Responding to your question
by: Rivera

Hi Chris thank you for your quick response.

I am in California, and the letter came from Benefit Accuracy Measurement audit department.

What I meant in regards to the interviewer not comprehending what I was saying, is that she kept on asking me why I wasn't working full-time since my rehire date and I had to keep on explaining that I was not hired on a full time basis only part time.

She then kept referring back to my employer's website where it said they were open five days a week and I explained again, the website is irrelevant information because I was hired for only part time work.

The doctor told me he was firing me because I couldn't I start working full time that Monday. He has never fired anyone before, because he doesn't like paying unemployment and he has told everyone in the office this, that's why my termination was a surprise to everyone.

I don't understand why I'm being audited, if they haven't paid me anything since I was approved initially, and then unapproved. When I called back the third time, the representative didn't understand why they took this action to deny benefits, if I was available to work full-time except for a couple of days to get my school situation settled.

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