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PAID UI BENEFITS FOR THE LAST 9 WEEKS, NOW I GET AN EMPLOYERS APPEAL

by AJ
(USA)

DECEMBER 2011


I HAD BACK SPASMS AND COULD HARDLY WALK,PRACTICALLY DRAGGED MYSELF IN TO WORK, SITTING AT MY DESK AT 6:30AM TO 3:30PM AND EVERY 3RD SATURDAY. AT THAT TIME HAD A DIFFERENT MGR. WHO KEPT SAYING IF YOU STAY HOME I WILL HAVE TO WRITE YOU UP.

NO ONE TO HELP OR TAKE CARE OF ME, I WENT TO WORK AND STILL WAS WRITTEN UP AROUND CHRISTMAS TIME. SINCE I WAS A GOOD WORKER AND IN GOOD STANDING, I WAS GIVEN A EXTRA SICK DAY WHICH SAVED ME FROM HAVING MORE OCCURRENCES THEN ALLOWED.
DON'T KNOW HOW I MADE IT BUT I DID.

SEPTEMBER 2012

MY BACK SPASMS STARTED A LITTLE EARLIER THIS YEAR AND HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE WAS WITH IT BECAUSE OF THE PAIN. I LIVED IN COLORADO, AND WEATHER WAS DOING SOME OF EVERYTHING.

DURING THE YEAR I WOULD APPLY FOR DIFFERENT JOBS, I HAD BEEN DOING MY JOB FOR ABOUT 3 YEARS NOW TALKING WITH SICK PEOPLE ALL DAY, I LIKED MY JOB,IT WAS ANOTHER WAY OF GIVING BACK. BUT IT WAS TIME TO DO SOMETHING ELSE WITHIN THE COMPANY.

I STARTED MISSING SOME DAYS, YOU HAVE TO CALL IN TO SAY YOU WON'T BE IN COULD NOT GET A DOCTORS APPOINTMENT FOR A WEEK OR SO. WHEN I DID I COULD HARDLY WALK,DOCTOR LOADED ME UP MEDICATION AND STAY HOME THE FIRST WEEK.

ADVISED MY MGR. WHAT WAS GOING ALL ALONG. ALSO SPOKE WITH MGR, IN H/R EVERY WEEK I WAS OUT TRIED TO GET STD, THAT WAS A JOKE, SAW MY DOCTOR EVERY WEEK I WAS OUT AND B/PRESSURE MEDS NOT WORKING AT ALL, 165-180/90 CHANGED MED 2-3 TIMES,LIGHTHEADED AS WELL.

RECEIVED 100-200.00 HERE AND THERE FROM COMPANY TO PAY MY BENEFITS. OUT OF WORK FOR 1 MONTH. UPON RETURNING I WENT TO PHYSICAL THERAPY 2 X A WEEK AT 45.00 A VISIT AFTER LEAVING WORK. THEN TO ADD MORE STRESS ON ME I WAS TOLD BY H/R THEY WANTED THEIR MONEY BACK(850.00)AND I WOULD BE GETTING FMLA INSTEAD IN ORDER TO KEEP MY JOB, I WAS WAY OVER THE OCCURRENCES LIMIT. THEY DID NOT LIKE THE INFORMATION MY DOCTOR GAVE THEM ON ME THEY NEEDED MORE.

FROM THE 9/7 TO 10/5 AT HOME. CALLED MY BOSS 1 NIGHT AND TOLD HER I NEEDED TO SPEAK WITH HER ABOUT RESIGNING AFTER BEING BACK AT WORK FOR 3 WEEKS NOT FEELING ANY BETTER AND STARTING FEEL WORRIED, MY PRESSURE HAD NOT BEEN THAT HIGH FOR THAT LONG.

SHE DID NOT WANT ME TO DO IT AND WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IT,I FELT I WAS NOT DOING MY JOB TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY, THERE WAS NO OTHER JOB TO IN THE CALL CENTER, I COULD NOT TAKE MY MEDS AND DRIVE. I DID NOT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO. HOW CAN I GET BETTER.

ON 10/25 OR THERE OF, I SENT HER MY RESIGNATION STATING THAT SINCE I WAS NOT GETTING BETTER AFTER RETURNING TO WORK, I WOULD ALSO BE RELOCATING TO ANOTHER STATE AND LOOK FOR A BETTER JOB AND I WOULD WORK UNTIL WEEK OF THANKSGIVING,
I HAD 3 VACATION DAYS COMING THAT WEEK.

SHE COULD NOT BELIEVE I WAS SERIOUS AND IT HAD COME TO THIS. I TOLD HER AT MY LUNCH TIME I WOULD GO TO GYM IN OUR BLDG. AND HAVE THE GIRL TAKE MY B/PRESSURE.

DID NOT APPLY FOR UI UNTIL 3/2013 WAITED 6 WEEKS AND HAVE RECEIVED PAYMENTS FOR PAST 9 WEEKS, TODAY RECEIVED THE APPEAL HEARING, WHY SHOULD I GO?????? ISN'T THE BURDEN OF PROOF ON THEM?????

WILL WAIT TO HEAR FROM YOU. HEARING IS 6/4/13 AND CAN BE DONE OVER PHONE SINCE I'M OUT OF STATE

THANK YOU



Hi AJ,

You must not of read any of the articles I worked so hard on to explain about the burden of proof for voluntary resignations.

Or why when you don't win the first appeal hearing .. you're likely done for.

Colorado unemployment hearings are always done by phone.

You should attend the hearing in case you didn't apprise me of what may actually be your good cause for fulfilling your burden of proof.

It is upon the moving party to prove good cause for moving. And in your case you have a problem as far as I can see because you did quit. This despite the fact the employer wanted you to go out on FMLA (This is what good employers do to comply with the law that protects many employees jobs when illness becomes an issue.) But, it sounds like you got a little testy when you refused the employer's offer of FML, a reasonable alternative to an employee desirous of preserving their job.

I don't expect an answer, but I'll ask anyway .. when I don't sound like a sympathetic pushover.

What did this mean?

"SHE COULD NOT BELIEVE I WAS SERIOUS AND IT HAD COME TO THIS. I TOLD HER AT MY LUNCH TIME I WOULD GO TO GYM IN OUR BLDG. AND HAVE THE GIRL TAKE MY B/PRESSURE."

Frankly, I have no trouble believing what people do and I fight my cynicism everyday because I just want to live out the rest of my days as an optimist. However, it is what opened the door wide on my cynicism about the motives for you quitting and now, asking me a question.

The burden of quitting always places the burden at the employees feet and at a hearing, even when initially allowed benefits.

If a person cannot SUSTAIN the burden and prove they exhausted all reasonable alternatives to preserve the employment before they quit, thereby shifting the burden back to the employer's unreasonable choices in the "chess game" .. you're doomed.

In my mind, you did quite the opposite of what I would of done .. if unemployment benefits had entered my mind as a possibility to carry me through without a job. And trust me, it would have.

But even to me, an employee biased advocate, it sounds like you were just looking for a way out of that job .. or maybe Colorado.

Or, is the employer's appeal questioning whether you are able and available to accept any job whatsoever?
















Comments for PAID UI BENEFITS FOR THE LAST 9 WEEKS, NOW I GET AN EMPLOYERS APPEAL

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May 31, 2013
to answer your question
by: AJ

Thank you so much for answering my question, now I will answer yours.

I was speaking about my manager, not believing that I was going to leave, we had a talk and this was not the first one, but on this occasion, I explained to her, that I needed to take this medication, I really needed to get my pressure under control. I was not feeling like myself and I was not doing my job as effective as I could be.

I did accept FMLA that is how I worked another 5 weeks. H/R claimed that they could have accommodated me after the fact, but not during the time of need.

I did value my job, and I appreciated it, they let me work at home for 15 months. I tried to stay with the company by applying for different jobs about 5 or 6 of them. never got a reason why I did not get the job although I will be 62 years old very soon.

I did read a lot of your writings, most of them were the opposite of what I'm experiencing to me.
this is all new to me. I've collected unemployment maybe 3 times in my life and not for very long, always found a job as I will do now.

I use to work at an Unemployment office, many years ago and to see the way things have changed today for the masses, I'm ashamed.

I do wish to speak you with a little more about this. sorry, you misunderstood some things.

tell what you think about this decision Section 8-73108(4)(b)(I), C.R.S. 2009

AJ

Based on info received our investigation has determined that you separated from this employment when it became necessary to change occupations due to your health, You are able to perform other work.

Did you provide the Colorado claims deputy (adjudicator) medical documentation to support the need to quit because the employer could not offer an accommodation to allow you to continue in the employment? This would explain to me why you received benefits as would the employer's response to the claim being insufficient in the first place .. which is a real bone of contention for me personally as I see it as "employer apathy" to the grief caused by overpayments .. to good and bad employees alike.


Okay AJ, I'm going to try to combine the pertinent additional info you provided in this and one other comment. I'll also try to make your voluntary quit for health reasons .. in Colorado worth reading for others as I had the personal experience of fighting an employer appeal there for quitting for the same reason .. my health, which my employer also refused to accommodate which forced me into objectively having to make decision for my own health based on the advice from my doctor for a specific health condition.

But since space is limited for "comments" I'll have to follow up in my own comment.



May 31, 2013
Quitting for Health Reasons in Colorado
by: Chris - Unemployment-tips

8-73-108 of the Colorado Employment Security Act is about the conditions and reasons for "benefit awards".

Everyone will have to click the link above to read the section 8-73-108 of law .. the pertinent section being (4)(b)(I) the health of the worker being the primary cause for a separation .. because that is what you need to focus on for the hearing. By the way .. DNA (do not attend) the hearing at risk of your own peril.

If you read the section of law, it should become obvious that you might have left out some pertinent factors about your health and medical advice, that would allow me to feel more confident for you .. the one that thought the employer had the burden of proof .. even though you formerly worked for an unemployment division.

At hearings, the burden can be shifted back and forth, but like a tennis match you first have to serve it over the net.

What kind of occupation change have you undergone that is now accommodating that health condition you quit over?

Yes, it probably would be a good thing if you would talk to me AJ, because I do have a lot of questions about what specifically occurred between you and agents of your employer .. including HR.

I want to know why after five weeks of FMLA, you decided to quit.

Was it on the advice of a physician?

Was it because the employer could of accommodated a medically advised work restriction to keep you working, but refused and instead forced you into taking FMLA .. which for many people will be unpaid after using all their PTO.

Was it that after being fully restricted from work by a doctor and then medically cleared to go back to work without restrictions, you self diagnosed yourself as incapable of doing this particular job anymore?

Or, was it because the FML had finally become unpaid leave?

Was it the altitude of Colorado?

I just don't know what the reason was that prompted you to quit the job at the time you quit it and that is what a hearing officer will also want to know from you and whether your decision was made after exhausting alternatives and finding objectively, you had no other choice.

As for all the crap that goes on in unemployment insurance divisions and UI cost control company .. that's just people being people doing whatever floats their boat on any given day in the place where they work .. without regard or worry about the negative consequences to themselves .. let alone others.

Jun 01, 2013
Last Part
by: AJ



Hi, Chris

I did not have to submit any doctor info to the UI Adjudicator, no one asked for anything and I was never contacted, I did my UI application online. However after answering certain questions it did mention at the bottom of the page that you may have to give medical info if asked.

Yes,I did make a decision about my health and what would be better for me. I don't understand the statement (about bone contention) what does that mean?

My doctor didn't want to involve herself one way or the other, she did say the stress is coming from some where and we really have to get your pressure under control and maybe you do need to change your job, but she was not putting it in writing.

She made me feel as though she was working for my employer and not me. All medical documents were sent to H/R, I never got a copy of anything so I have no idea what was sent.

I will go back to doing what I use to do before this job, I have a Corp. Purchasing background working for a Pharmaceutical Company for many years as an Exec. Asst., Asst. Buyer and working in hospitals as a Medical Biller and Registrar. I can do other kinds of jobs.


Jun 01, 2013
continued last part
by: AJ


Originally, I did not go out on FMLA! I never asked for it, why would I, this was never discussed. My manager discussed the STD with me. I did not find out about it until I returned to work with the doctor note clearing me to do so, with light duty only and there is no such thing at my job, you will work your hours or be written up. I have never worked in this type of setting before. (micro managed every second of the day)I do mean every second too!!!

A week or two later H/R called me saying, I have good news and bad news. 1. I would have to pay back the money they had given me to pay for my benefits while I was out and will I send you an email on the ways to do it.. 2. so that i would not be written up, she would use the FMLA. at that point I knew I would not be getting STD.

I still was not feeling any better, I had made my decision to resign before I went back to work, it had nothing to do with the ruling of giving me FMLA. I tried to resign while I was out sick and I was still wrestling with it.

My manager wanted me to come back and give things a chance to work out and I did. my stats were going down before I went out sick because I was not feeling well and when I came back I practically had to start over, I had a good manager and she really did care. I just was not well when I returned to work and could not afford to stay out any longer either, it was a choice between the job or me getting better and I choose me.

About the altitude in Colorado it probably was a factor, I was lightheaded all the time. I have never been a sickly person, don't miss days from work. there was definitely something wrong going on here.

I was visiting someone at the hospital a couple weeks ago and I made the statement that maybe I need to check my pressure and the nurse said I will do it for you and it was 169/90 I am still struggling with it, but i'm ready to go to work, that's all I know how to do anyway.

AJ

Oct 05, 2013
response to AJ's questions
by: Anonymous

I"m not sure if this is too late as it is now October 2013 and aJ's last response was in June. However, I want you to know that just because you were given FMLA it didn't necessarily have to be in lieu of STD. I took STD and LTD two different times at my former employer and I used it in conjunction with FMLA. FMLA protects your job, STD gives youu a percentage of your income.

If you never filed for STD, it may be possible that you still could collect it based on the dates you were out of work, although you do not work at the company any more.

Most likely, you just have to prove that you were still employed at the time and submit documentation, etc.

It aslo helps if you let the insurance company know you did not file for benefits because you were confused as to what you qualified for. It's best to look into that asap because they typically give you a certain timeframe to submit the app for benefits. I think it's 6 months but may be longer. It should be in your STD insurance policy when you initially filed for it during open enrollment.

NT

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