Quit jobs due to illegal activies and poor working condition


(Park City, UT)

I quit my job due to illegal activities and poor working conditions. My boss zeroed out patient credits, did not refund for errors that were made. He had me adjust trade work as a loss for his business, paid late (pass due dates), shorted my bonus and threatened to cut my hours by more than 20%. Did I have good cause to quit? Unemployment has denied me after my first appeal? Please help!





Hi,

Tell me about the illegal activities of the employer and how you "proved" this burden that illegalities were occurring and how you were involved in helping the employer carry them out.


By the way, an employer doesn't have to threaten a 20 percent reduction in hours .. because they are free to do this as a "business decision". They can even cut your wages by 20 percent as long as you don't drop below the minimum wage standards. The could even cut your hours or wages by 75 percent if they wanted .. of course you might then have good cause to quit .. but the amount of the cut can be state specific.

When it comes to reduction in hours .. I always suggest filing for partial unemployment benefits first .. because if they are a decent employer .. the goal would be to reinstate those hours when things pick up.

Comments for Quit jobs due to illegal activies and poor working condition

Click here to add your own comments

Dec 14, 2010
Illegal Activies & poor working condition
by: Anonymous

I was in charge of all patients accounts and my boss removed all credits on accounts instead of issuing refunds to the patients. I told him I did not agree with his way of doing business, but did not know it was against the law until after I quit. I did some research, and As a health care professional he falls under abandonment property laws. He expected me to lie to his patients and miss inform them that there were at a zero balance instead of the proper credit that was on the account at one point. VERY UNETHICAL in my book. I was not comfortable with this.... Also, when I realized that he had overcharged a patient for a root canal "TWICE" he did not what to correct the account. I was told to leave the account alone! There was also a patient's workers comp. insurance that was overcharged and he did not want to issue a refund to the workers comp. insurance either. CLEARLY FRAUD.... Not to mention he did trade work for some patients and had me write it off on his records as a loss, not report the monies, when the IRS considers trade work identical to real dollars. It is not a loss to the business.... again more unethical issues!!! I can't believe I was denied my unemployment benefits due to his illegal ways and he can get away with this? Not to mention cut my bonus and then try to cut my hours as well..... UNBELIEVABLE!!!



Hi,

Were you denied after filing or have you been denied after an appeal hearing?

Being asked by an employer to break laws is good cause to quit, but some of the other reason you are calling poor working conditions probably wouldn't be.

So now, why don't you provide me with the exact reasoning the state used to deny you the benefits.

Dec 14, 2010
Denied
by: Anonymous

Chris,

I originally filed the week of 10/24/10, I was denied under section 35A-4-403(1)(b) then I filed an appeal... I had the phone hearing on 12/7/10 and my past employer was not present in the call... I was then denied again, under section 35A-4-405(1) Voluntary Quit & 35A-4-307 Employer Charges. Now what...? Another appeal... Must be in written and within 30 from 12/7/10. PLEASE HELP!!




Okay, now I really don't understand. How did you lose an unemployment hearing for a voluntary quit due to the employer asking you to do illegal activities in the performance of your job if the employer was not there to rebut any of your testimony or submitted documentation to support your testimony?

As I keep saying .. Board level appeals are quite a different type of appeal.

Generally, you need the recording or written transcript of the lower level appeal hearing to look for hearing officer error in conducting the hearing.

You know, the person that presided and who is mandated to be a fair and impartial judge of the facts and protect everyone's right to due process per the rules of procedure for administrative law hearings.

You don't have to, but if you want to provide me with a word for word transcription of the hearing officer's decision .. I'll read it and either tell you what I think or .. ask you more questions if I have concerns about anything.

Please don't include any personally identifying information from the decision .. just the statement of facts, the reasoning and the conclusion.

Chris

PS I deleted the comment about your pay .. because the time to address that is while you are still an employee and through your state's labor board or the local office for the USDOL if your state does not have their own dept. of labor.

Dec 15, 2010
You made the most common of mistakes
by: Chris - unemployment-tips.com

I will make this brief since you do not want to share the decision .. the purpose of these "public and free Q&A's" is not to replace what I provide when someone pays me, but to help people learn.

You diluted your focus of argument. The illegal things you were doing on orders from this employer could have been good cause for quitting, but because you chose to quit the job when the bonus was taken away .. and not at a time when just the illegalities were your concern .. is the major flaw.

Not to mention you contradicted your own testimony about fear of being fired with an example of a time you had to reveal the fraud to a patient .. without retribution from the employer.

It's reasonable for anyone to think that it wasn't the illegal activities you quit over, but the the bonus .. based on the fraud??

Although I'm not quite certain if the bonus was based on the wrongdoings of the employer .. it sounds like it.

Having a bonus taken away is not good cause to quit, being threatened with a reduction in hours is not good cause to quit.

When a person quits, they must prove the burden or they too, will be denied benefits as you have been.

It was your own testimony at the hearing that was your undoing. The employer wasn't even in attendance and this is NOT a guarantee that you will win.

You are a prime example of how claimants self disqualify themselves by not thinking their argument through to the logical conclusion a fair and impartial neutral party (the ALJ) will arrive at.

Even if the hearing officer was biased towards employees .. I doubt the decision would be any different.

The hearing decision sounded sound to me.

Chris

Sep 19, 2013
can i get unemployment due to poor health and poor working conditions
by: Anonymous

I was working for a Dentist who made my life hell. I recently quit because I couldnt take it anymore. The working conditions were terrible. I worked there for 5 years. The office has many Osha violations. The office was extremely dirty. When ever myself or another Dental Assistant attempted to clean up in the office we were constantly harassed and rushed. Told to stop cleaning just to treat patients. We were constantly forced to lie to patients. There are flies and mice everywhere in the office. I have had numerous anxiety attacks in the office that my boss knows about. I just could not take it anymore and felt that my health was at stake. Would i be able to receive unemployment in PA until i found another job?



My goal, for the free unemployment Q&A's which is explained here has never been to provide definitive yes, or no answers about an ability to collect, but to explain why employees frequently don't collect, so they might choose to be more proactive as employees to protect their ability to collect.

My guess is right now, you did not read the information about the burden of proof you are assigned because you quit.

Why do I think you didn't read it? Because you didn't mention anything about how you will fulfill this burden.

Aug 12, 2016
unsafe
by: Anonymous

The motel where I work was robbed , the owner has been telling me 6 month he would secure doors and hasn't. Is that a valid reason. I'm in Georgia.



Good cause for quitting a job is not something I care to say definitively exists, or doesn't .. because that would mean I need to receive and evaluate information (facts and evidence of good cause) from the person wanting/needing to quit that actually goes to the burden of quitting. All because, it's still the employee feeling unsafe that becomes the moving party who must still prove their choice to quit as being attributable to the work itself, or the employer him/herself, or any unreasonable crazy combination of both.

Evidence is documentation that would prove you might have good cause to quit, due to unsafe working conditions that an employer should reasonably of taken care of and that means you have a lot to consider first about employment in Georgia.

I found a number of resources relevant to the State of Georgia that might help if you want to make your own judgement on details, or how to get unemployment benefits should you quit -- six months after the incident of being robbed and now, that you're claiming the employer has still not reasonably dealt with your efforts to get them to take care of an unsafe condition of your job.

What's the proof you will use to show the Georgia DOL you made efforts to preserve your employment?

In other words, what evidence do you have now that will be useful, in the event your employer denies you made any efforts to correct the unsafe security issue before you quit.

Is the evidence good/strong enough to prove any employer story as a lie and your story as sufficient reason to quit and the truth of the situation?

You don't need to answer my questions, unless you ever decide you want professional representation, or coaching for a Georgia unemployment phone hearing to decide if you did, or didn't end up quitting with, or without good cause.

But I do think you should think about the question, if quitting feels necessary and doing that would be contingent on collecting unemployment.

A good place to begin to look for answers is at those free Georgia employment/unemployment resources I mentioned above.

At least until the point someone might want professional representation, or coaching for a Georgia unemployment phone hearing.

Chris

May 13, 2017
People smoking pot on job
by: Anonymous

I have not quit my job yet but plan on telling my boss on Monday people have been getting high on the job and i just cant be around it due to the fact I'm in alcoholics anonymous and such stuff could jeopardize my sobriety not to mention its just wrong. Im going to apply for unemployment do i have a good chance at getting anything.

The second shift supervisor smokes pot while at work to so management is aware but the 2nd shift supervisor has been on at the company for over 30 years so I was afraid to say anything about it because i didn't think it would make a difference only put a target on my back.

Like I said I'm going to tell the plant manager I cant work in such conditions. Do i have a chance or not? Please help...

May 13, 2017
Quitting because people are smoking pot at work?
by: Chris - Unemployment-Tips.com

Of course an at will employee can quit any job and then apply for unemployment. But, to repeat my consistent message, if you quit and expect you can fulfill (meet) the burden of proving fault for whatever reason, by simply putting an accusation out there to collect unemployment, then you're still missing my basic message, which anyone, is as free to ignore, as they are to quit at-will employment, for any reason they just feel is good enough cause for them, if not to collect unemployment.

The point is when you make (and document) the concerted efforts to preserve your job, you're attempting to create a factual story you can prove to an unemployment department.

I will not tell you that in just doing so, an employee also can put a target on their back.

But then the point of a paper trail with dates .. is if fired for complaining a supervisor, or co-worker on drinking and drugging on the job and regardless of whether you know this to be a threat to your personal sobriety .. that documentation of reasonable and exhaustive efforts to preserve your job .. is what may actually make the job of shifting the fault to the employer for quitting, or for their choice to fire you. (hello .. if you're confused, just look at the news this past week and ask, was Comey fired for poor job performance, or because he refused to stop an investigation to find facts that may hurt the current president)

At unemployment hearings .. the direct witness to a quit, or a discharge is often someone the claimant had direct dealings with .. in your case .. it's a purported pot-smoking supervisor.

What do you think he/she might say about what is now .. just an accusation.

But like I've said before .. the road to quitting with good cause is littered with those who couldn't prove a true story .. to be the credible facts due to the standard of law applied at all first level unemployment hearings. And this include even those with a good reason, but no good cause who then had to repay benefits they initially received, because employers appeal benefits when allowed and whether someone quit, like you're planning on Monday, or whether they decide to put the target on their back and choose the position of fighting by rebutting why the employer can't sustain their burden a discharge was for work related misconduct.

Chris - Unemployment-Tips.com

Jul 19, 2018
HELP my freedom at risk
by: Anonymous

Hello....I currently work for a Convenience Store in Texas and my boss just got some slot machines in the store. He explained to me how they work and told me to pay cash to only the ones I trust.. That threw me off and scared me. I don't want to go to jail over his choices. I don't want no part in it. Would I qualify for unemployment if I was to quit due to that?


Hi,

I don't know. But I will tell you what I tell anyone who hasn't quit their job yet .. Benefits will be about your ability to meet the burden of proof before you quit, to have GOOD CAUSE for that choice .. after you quit.

Good cause to quit .. at least the way I think about good cause, which means there's proof that one first attempted to PRESERVE their job .. before quitting.

The two questions that came to mind, which I don't have any answers to is whether the slot machines are legal to have in a convenience store in the state of TX .. and if so, whether your boss's instructions to you, might be a clear cut violation of some regulation controlling gambling as an industry.

You tell me you're worried about going to jail over this .. but you did not tell me the reason why you leaped to jail as a foregone conclusion, or why your boss would instruct you to only pay those YOU TRUST?

That alone sounds sort of weird .. if jail is actually a consequence for not just you, but the boss you're subordinate to.

I will also tell you one can have good cause to quit a job when instructed by their employer to do something illegal in the otherwise legal performance of a job, but until, or unless there is actual proof an employer instructed an employee to do something illegal and if you didn't commit the illegal act, you would be fired, or some sort of proof that when you refused to do the illegal act you were fired for that reason .. I think it would be tough to meet UI's burden of proof, to collect unemployment after quitting .. with only a story to tell and no evidence to weight the story as being a credible one, to counter whatever the employer might tell the unemployment department about the cause for separation.

Chris

Click here to add your own comments

Return to Quitting and Unemployment.

} }