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Unemployed Stories

I won my unemployment appeal hearing and want to know what the chances are of my former employer winning if they take it to the board of review?

by Aimee
(Illinois)

I was initially denied employment as the employer protested.....so we went to the appeal hearing step (I filed an appeal). I also hired an attorney to represent me at the appeal and we won.
I won based on change in job description (they kept giving me more and more duties that were not included in the job I was hired for but yet cut pay and hours).
I just want to know what the chances are for the employer to go to the board of review and win when I just appealed and won?


Hi Aimee,

Was the employer present at the hearing? If they were I wouldn't be as concerned about it as I would if you tell me they didn't appear and you won.

An appeal to board is based upon a procedural error. Coming from the line of work I was in .. I can tell you that it was standard operating procedure to appeal to the board if an employer's request for postponement was denied.

If they were present and offered testimony and had their chance to submit documentation for their case .. the appeal also needs to be based upon a perceived error, but instead of showing that a postponement was denied without good cause, they have to focus upon what they believe to be an error in procedure made by the ALJ, whether it is for something like ignoring testimony or giving improper weight to hearsay vs. direct testimony, refusal to allow a document into the record .. etc. This isn't as easy to do.


Some employers never care to go beyond the lower level appeal decision, you just never know. Another thing that can effect the decision to appeal further is if an employer used one of those third party vendors.

I know a lot of hearing reps that take losses personally. They may actually persuade an employer to appeal.

The chances of your employer winning on appeal to the board is not great, but it's better for a remand which means another hearing. It's also doubtful that IL would remand it de novo (like the first one didn't happen) but just to gather more information. Yet it can happen.

If a claimant's employer does appeal to the board .. I think that the claimant should definitely contact an attorney.

ALJ's are usually given wide berth in determining things like credibility, but there are some goofy hearing officers out there that simply make a lot of mistakes primarily because of their biases and boards will remand some hearings back to the lower level to be heard again or reverse decisions. This is the exception and not the rule.

I suppose the best thing you have going for you in Illinois is that the hearing officers are attorneys. Some states do not require hearing officers to be attorneys.

Pennsylvania and New Jersey jump to mind right now.

Don't worry yet. I'm sure your attorney has considered this. What did they say? What makes you concerned the employer will appeal?

Comments for
I won my unemployment appeal hearing and want to know what the chances are of my former employer winning if they take it to the board of review?

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Jun 23, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Board of Review Appeal
by: Aimee

The employer claimed at the initial appeal that they had no knowledge of my health issues even though I spoke of it to management and co-workers on MANY occasions and also went to the emergency room IN FRONT OF EVERYONE THERE INCLUDING THE OFFICE MANAGER. At the phone appeal the judge did seem in much disbelief at the blatant denials of the employer. The office manager said she did not even tell the owner of my ER trip and that would be regular procedure for most concerned and responsible office managers. They did appeal to the board. I had all my hospital and Dr. records along with my testimony. I have a year's worth of Dr.'s records regarding health issues related to the physical work environment. The employer is the CHEAPEST I ever worked for. Him fighting it is based on that. He even sent his mother who was in the hospital a box of chap stick from out of his warehouse instead of sending her flower etc. If that does not tell you how cheap he is....what does?????
I still have about 100 days to find out what they decide. I did call my attorney and he feels there is nothing to worry about and nothing more we can do.
Aimee
ps - I will let you know the outcome!!


I just love being updated:))

Chris
Apr 29, 2010
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Won't ever give up!!!!!
by: s.e.t

Readers digest version
fired for cash handling policy-August 09
filed for unemployment
finally got a determination after first appeal in my favor in November 09 (six months ago)

I received letter 4 days ago saying case must now must go to GA Board of Review at the request of the employer.

Side point-strongly feel this is in retaliation for strong particpation in helping labor union contract be renegotiated. However facts not feelings are what is important.

Needless to say unemployment benefits is only income and I am livid!!

What are the company's chances of winning this appeal?

Thanx!!


Hi s.e.t.

It all depends on the circumstances of the hearing itself.

Did the employer attend the hearing?

Normally, I don't get too fidgety for anyone if the employer showed up to the hearing and they got a reversal, but if the employer wasn't there .. then I start to worry because they can also manage to get cases "reopened" .. if the state denied a postponement request wrongly.

Was their appeal to the board timely? Six months seems like an awfully long time to be notified of the fact that they filed an appeal .. even under the worst conditions of a state being slammed with requests for review.

The company I worked for filed appeals just to appease employers who were paying for the service .. no basis needed.

The appeals were frivolous and futile, but when it was a bad decision and there were procedural errors made during the hearing .. the appeal would be followed up by a brief, brief outlining the errors and this usually resulted in a remanded hearing to either start fresh or for further development of the record.

Sidenote: Cash handling discharges are wrought with pitfalls for proving misconduct.
Jul 31, 2010
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Hearing won.
by: Anonymous

I received the letter in the mail stating that i won my hearing (reversed in my favor). when will i receive my money?



That, you should be asking your state unemployment department.
Aug 26, 2010
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		what to do
by: worried

I just won my appeal and was back paid now my employer is appealing again should i be worried


Tell me what the circumstances were for your hearing .. was the employer there? Did they request a continuance? And what state was it .. and I'll tell you how worried I'd be.

In fact, why don't you create your own submission instead of a comment .. you can write more that way.
Sep 15, 2010
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		unemployment
by:

my case was closed i made an appeal i spoke to a referee by phone his desicion was that my case was reversed what does that mean.




Hi,

It means just what it says .. The determination or decision, which you appealed, has been reversed.
Nov 21, 2010
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		unemployment
by: Anonymous

i resigned while on suspension. first level was denied benefits. i filed an appeal. my 2nd level appeal is coming up. i am better prepared this time, as my environment was hostile and relaliatory due to me complaining to management. they wanted to push me out. i filed to EEOC a year prior and filed a grievance 6 months prior. employer says they suspended me for misconduct. i did no more than everyone else. as a matter of fact, memo was sent to all regarding personal usage of computer. as a result of stress-related issues, my attendance suffered.

Should i present my testimony. will we both get a chance to speak one after the other?

help?



What state are you in .. when someone says second appeal .. I always need to ask because they might mean they appealed a re-determination.

If it's truly a second level appeal .. you don't get to add testimony or document to the record of the first hearing .. except possibly in a state or two.
Dec 02, 2010
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Claiment who won appeal in Indianapolis
by: Indianapolis, IN

I recently won my appeal hearing in Indianapolis, IN. The hearing was over the phone with an actual atty who is a law judge. The employer aka my old boss was present on the phone.

I won and wanted to know if in Indiana do many employers take this to the board and win? I was fired due to tardiness and days missed. I had Dr Notice, the judge allowed this and employer didn't admit proof I was late besides his word.

Thanks!!

Indianaplis




Hi,

I can never tell what an employer will do, but from experience .. I'd say you will be just fine.

Although I know you might still be a little worried about a "board appeal" .. I think your worries are just that .. worries.

The employer attended and the employer had the burden and the chance to admit an attendance policy and write-ups for each occurrence..

It also seems that you provided a Dr. notes which convinced the ALJ .. good for you.

You're good to go.
Dec 18, 2010
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		The employer is appealing to the board
by: Indianapois

Hello,

I wrote you about how I won my appeal in IN who uses atty ALJ in the hearing. My ex employer uses UC Express with a p.o. box in Columbus Ohio to represent them. During the appeal no one from UC Express was thier, just the judge my ex boss and me over the phone.

I remember you stating in a prevous post if an employer has a 3rd party vender they will fight all the way. Well this did happen, I received my letter today that they are applealing the decesion of the law judge and appealing to the review board.

The letter states "This is a notification that the Review Board has received an appeal from the adversely affected party. No further action is required by either party at this time. The Review Board will issue a decesion by mail after a review of the Administrative Law Judge's Record."

I hope this goes inmy favor becuase the employeer had no proof as I did with Dr. Notice and all the ex bosses info was just him stating I was late and he changed his facts a number of time. The ALJ rulled that the employee hand book didnt't define late or absence and what I was fired for and he ruled I was let go for un just cause. I was given no warning of any kind and I stated in my hearing all my absences were discussd with employer.

What do you think will happen??

Thanks!!


Hi,

Considering what I happen to know about not only unemployment appeals, but the particular "third party's" way of doing things .. My personal inclination is to tell you to relax .. but objectively speaking .. relax, stay guarded an on alert .. just in case that third company broke with their usual "client placating" board appeal routine and actually follow up the appeal with a legal brief with teeth.
Dec 19, 2010
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Appeal Board
by: Indianapolis

Thanks Chris, I will let you know what the board decides and infact if the "third party" UC Express is able to actually get the IN UEM Board to reverse my appeal win in early Dec. I just can't beleive a board would reverse an appeal decesion made by an actual atty "ALJ" and the employeer already had their opportunity to present evidence and argue! Oh, my boss is not an actual US Citizen and once told me he can't hire or fire. He fired me, is this legal, should I bring this up to anyone in my state of IN?

Oh, from what the letter states I don't or can't do anything, just sit and see if the board likes UC Express enough and overturnes the ALJ. Don't they have to send me any evidence like I had to them in the first appeal with the ALJ?

Thanks!!

Indianapolis



Hi,

I don't know what your old boss was talking about when he said he can't hire or fire?? Very weird.

Boards do not consider new evidence or testimony on appeal. They examine the record created at that lower level hearing for errors made by the ALJ either in application of the laws and controlling precedent decisions .. including your rights to due process and the rules of procedure for administrative law hearings.

I can tell you what the third party would do if it were your appeal .. they might send what is know as an "affirmation letter" .. which is similar to an appeal asking for a reversal or remand, but an affirmation letter focuses on case law that affirms the decision was correct.

This is probably not necessary in your case, but whether you .. or anyone, needs to appeal or affirm to a board .. I DO NOT encourage people to undertake this themselves .. rather have someone experienced in unemployment do it for you so it at least has a fighting chance.
Jan 26, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		I won my hearing after initially being denied
by: Greg

I filed in July but never received anything in the mail because of issues with the post office. It took me until October to get this sorted out and filed an appeal to get my benefits. I was denied because of timeliness. I appealed that to the Board and it was remanded back to the lower level because I never had a proper hearing.

So I recently had two hearings, one for timeliness and the other for the discharge of my employment.

I won both, but was told that my employer is going to appeal (I have a friend that still works there).

My employer did not show up at my hearing but they did submit a huge amount of paperwork as evidence, including all my write-ups and letter explaining why I was fired. I still won.

If they appeal, do they get another hearing automatic or do they have to find a reason why the rules weren't followed or some other harder burden then just not liking the decision? I feel like they presented their evidence and it wasn't enough. I don't want to have to go through that crap again or pay back the benefits if I lose.

Thanks.



Hi,

You didn't mention the state, but you basically have it right.

The employer would have to appeal and then, depending on the state there might be a hearing to show good cause for the "non-appearance". You will receive a notice of hearing .. because you are an "interested party".

I sure hope it isn't New York .. they give either side at least two more chances to get their butt to a hearing before they make an issue of not attending a hearing.
Jan 27, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Indianapolis Update
by: Anonymous

Just received notice via mail the Review Board affirmed the decision of the ALJ in my favor. Hope these nuts don't try a 3rd appeal and try to appeal the review board. It states if they want to do this they have to pay for court cost and fees.



Most don't .. that can be costly ..
Jan 27, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Won my appeal but Employer wants to appeal it
by: Greg

In in Arizona, by the way.


That makes sense.

Arizona sends the two hearing notices stacked one on top of the other .. it's possible they might not have looked further through the packet and only saw the timeliness issue notice.

Boo-hoo.
Feb 03, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Appeal Unemployment
by: Fish

California!I have to appeal unemployemnt because they said i quit and i did no such thing. I told my employer that i couldnt work under the circumstances they had me in and it needed to be resolved and instead of talking about it she gave me my check with out futher discussion. I did try to resolve the problem with my hr department and they said he couldnt do anything beacuse it was his sister that was causing the problems. My question is for my appeal hearing for unemployent will my previouse employer be on the phone too or just me since it wasnt there decision it was edd.




If the employer is typical .. they of course would appear for the hearing .. because it's a hearing where the two sides are allowed to present evidence, witnesses and testimony .. and the ability to cross examine exist.

Not appearing is never an option .. unless an "interested party" doesn't care if they win or not.
Feb 04, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Won my hearing on appeal in Arizona
by: Anonymous

I have a friend still working there (he was canned about a week ago, ironically) and he said he overheard the managers talking about appealing the decision, so I'm expecting they will. I still feel pretty confident that they won't get very far, though. They didn't bother showing up for this one, just sent their explanation and all my write-ups for past offenses and it didn't help them.
Feb 14, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstar 		Second Appeal
by: Lisa

I am in Arizona and was fired from my job for misconduct. Initially I was denied benefits and had to file an appeal and won with telephone hearing in which the ALJ went in my favor.
My former employer who uses a 3rd party rep has appealed the ALJ's decision and I received a letter in the mail saying the decision is reversed and now have to appeal again!
They didn't provide any new evidence and I'm confused why they overturned it.
In the transcripts of the first hearing the manager stated I was fired NOT for misconduct but for refusing to sign a write up.
Should I be worried about losing?


Why don't you find out why it was reversed by reading the employer's appeal to the board.

All I know .. a refusal to sign can be seen as insubordination.

I've addressed this many times .. and I would personally never tell anyone to refuse to sign .. but to that .. I always recommend counter documenting.
Feb 14, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Unemployment Board of Review
by: Colleen

in Georgia. When I was terminated I filed for unemployment and it was denied. I appealed and had a in person hearing and everyone showed up and no continuations were asked for. There was actually a snow storm that delayed the hearing by 2 weeks.

I won my appeal with the hearing officer stating; employer failed to show or provide any proof of a rule or policy violation, supervisors allowed and supervised me as I broke this apparent "rule" that I was terminated for, and they terminated me on hearsay.

I received a letter in the mail today stating the employer is appealing to the Board of Review. The notice states I can write a letter to the board if I like. Should I do that? I received 3 months back pay when I won my appeal. if the decision is overturned will I have to pay this back. This all just doesn't seem fair. Nothing suprises me anymore Final note is they have listed me as eligible for rehire yet they tell all prospective employers I lack integrity so I have not been able to gain employment.




Hi,

Yes, you would receive a determination for overpayment .. which of course can be appealed.

As for the board appeal..

If you want .. you can write an affirmation letter to the board, laying out the legal reasons they should uphold the hearing officer's decision .. I do not recommend you do this yourself .. find out how much it would cost to have a professional hearing rep or a GA attorney do it for you .. or just let the board do their thing.

But what is bothering me is that you somehow know they are telling prospective employers you lack integrity

For this alone .. I would definitely want to talk to an attorney .. especially if it has occurred since the hearing decision.
Feb 16, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Letter stating why it was reversed
by: Lisa

Hi-

Funny thing is, the letter was pretty much exactly like the first one in which I was denied.

Then after I had an appeal hearing and the judge listened to both parties, the judge ruled in my favor so I'm really confused why it was reversed since there was no "new evidence" and now I pretty much have to repeat myself like I did to the judge in the hearing.

The reversal letter actually stated actions in my favor no less!!

My insubordination was "refusing to clean" because I had already finished all my cleaning and the manager at my work even stated I did and the appeal letter does state-no. 2-"the claimant had completed side work and cleaning duties previously as requested by her supervisor"(Tr. pp. 16,19 etc)

THEN- no. 5- it states "the claimants supervisor and manager met with claimant during evening hours- Purpose of meeting was to discuss failure to follow instructions-Employer considered this meeting counseling and DID NOT INTEND to discharge prior to meeting. Counseling notice was marked "first notice".

Following no. 6-8 just say I contacted HR about incident and repeated what happened and that I was discharged for insubordination.

In the transcripts like I said-HR and manager said if I had signed the write up I'd still be working there---so where is reason for firing again???

I've requested a copy of transcripts so I can refer to them with my appeal.

Seriously though, I just want to say the whole thing was blown out of proportion just because I wouldn't sign the write up and the write up said I had bad attitude about being asked to clean.

(well, I had already done 1.5 hrs cleaning just prior) and I'm a waitress who waiting now for tables. either way, point being why I won appeal was there was NO specific order of what "cleaning" was and they had stated I would still be working there if I had signed write up so Judge concluded it was unclear exactly why I had been fired.

I'm hoping to word everything just right.
I'm scared because I've heard so many stories of ppl having to pay back benefits and I don't believe my case warrants that.

Not to mention, it wasn't just me that was asked to clean but another server and since he didn't mention disapproval-AND DIDN"t go "clean" either, he wasn't reprimanded.

Sorry so long winded and there is more to the story such as I had been there longer than supervisor and manager and they actually had to come to ME for help so when I disagreed with them I was looked at as a pain so to speak.

Tragedy since I really did love my job. 7 years-no problems-then new manager and within 2 months I was out.




Hi Lisa,

Now why don't you tell me what the board cited as the reasons for reversal.
Feb 16, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		...
by: Colleen

Thanks for the input. I contacted my lawyer to write the letter. It is all very bothersome. Unfortunately in the state of GA they can say anything they want about me if they think it to be true. I have a EEOC investigation that has already been launched for retaliation, no fear act and whistleblower in reference to this matter. Everyone is confident I will come out ahead. This was just the first step in many to come. Thanks



Good Luck Collen .. I admire anyone willing to put forth the effort to push back!!
Feb 16, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Reversal
by: Lisa

Hello again,
Sorry! I thought the info up there was what you were looking for.
Ok, so what I read is my employer petitioned for review of the reversed determination.
"We have carefully reviewed in this case and have considered the contentions raised in the petition. Employer contends Decision of Appeal Tribunal was in error. Because we agree, we will not individually address the Employer's specific contentions.
The Appeals Board has the power to make its own findings of fact and is not bound by the Appeal Tribunal's findings regarding factual or credibility issues." then they refered to Rogers v. Arizona Dept. of Economic Security.
"We reject the Tribunal's findings of fact because they are not supported by the record and make our own findings. We will also use our own reasoning and conclusions of law.
The APPEALS BOARD FINDS the facts pertinent to the issue before us and necessary to our decision are:"

Goes on to 1 thru 8-
1.I worked as a server
2.My job description and that I HAD finished my work.
3.Manager approached me and another server and asked us to clean rather than talk.
4. I refused to clean stating I don't get paid to do extra cleaning.
5.We had a meeeting and counseling session in which they wrote me up "first notice" and I refused to sign. Employer did not intend to discharge me.
6. I repeated during meeting I didn't get paid to do extra cleaning.
7. Following day I contacted HR and REPEATED what had happened and (this is where they throw in I stated I wasn't paid to do extra cleaning again as if I specifically called them up to state this and actually I called them to help me with the write up and why I was being written up so many hours after incident and how it was more of a conversation and I wasn't given any SPECIFIC instruction of cleaning or what to do, rather I was given amicable relief of my duties for the afternoon within 10 min and came back for a whole different shift with no problem. so why was I getting wrote up?)
8. I was discharged for insubordination following talking to HR

Like I said I'm so confused why they disagreed with Appeal Tribunal since 1-8 was already brought up and dealt with by the ALJ. Nothing new in the reversal.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you:)
Feb 17, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Insubordination .. is to not comply with a reasonable directive.
by: Chris - unemployment-tips

I'm going to tell you why ..

Refusing to sign a petty write up is unreasonable.

The insubordination .. was not the fact that you said you didn't get paid to do extra cleaning .. the insubordination was the refusal to sign the write up.

Being an employee is being a subordinate to .. someone ..

Trust me .. I understand why people get pissed off when they believe a write up is without merit .. but aside from doing the job and bringing home the paycheck .. some employment is an ongoing game of wits.

I cannot change the status quo .. and refusing to sign a write up .. is a refusal to follow a reasonable directive from the employer.

Unless there is something in the small print on the write up that says your signature indicates an admission of guilt ..

So, here's what you should have done. Signed the damn write up and "counter document" your disagreement in the comment section of the write up.

When there isn't a comment section ..

Your signature should look something like this ..

Chris - unemployment-tips.com (Please see my attached statement of disagreement)

And after you write the statement .. make a copy, provide the original to your boss and ask for it to be attached to the write up in your personnel file and then file the copy away in your own file at home.

Refusing to sign .. is not the way to go when you're an at will employee .. there are crappy managers of people all over the place that use their power to create trumped up paper trails.

All we can do .. is our best to protect ourselves .. from winding up the loser by playing the games by the same strategies they use.

The workplace is the employer's home turf .. Employees are the visiting team.

And, you either learn to play by their home rules .. or you will end up with knots on your head.

But my opinion is one knot is enough to learn the lesson.
Feb 17, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		reversal
by: Lisa

I understand what your saying and in the future believe me I will sign then attach a disagreement(if need be). But in the workforce since 1988 and this was my first one I wasn't ready to handle it at the level of the infraction.
But can they change my reason for discharge AFTER the hearing?? Because in the initial hearing, the appeal and IN the transcripts it is clear I was fired for refusing to clean and they made a super big deal about my statement(which I only said once by the way, other times I only repeated what had happen)
So....still waiting for the transcripts in the mail and will prepare my appeal. I have 2 weeks.



No, the employer cannot add "additional" testimony or documents to get a reversal (at least not in most states)

Generally, anything a board level appeal is focused on needs to be relative to the information on the record of the hearing .. the taped recording or the transcript .. in some states.

So, if at anytime during that proceeding the employer testified that the reason was because you refused to sign the write-up .. and the hearing officer disregarded that piece of testimony .. it's an error by the hearing officer .. and therefore .. the reversal.
Feb 21, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Figured out reversal reasons
by: Lisa

Thank you for your response. I now have a better understanding of the reversal. It was based solely on hearsay from my employer about "continued" statements that they claim I made during write up and a phone call made by myself to HR the following day saying that I continued to state that I refuse to do my job.
I admit during hearing that I made a statement that I don't get paid to do OTHER people's job description of cleaning. I had made this statement because I had finished all work required of me and COULD not do any further cleaning at the time due to business. It is stated by my employer that I had finished my work and that he did NOT give me any specific instructions.
I further state that during write up I was co-erced into signed a 2 week resignation or be fired and this is why I called HR the following day. During this call I made no mention of "refusing to my job". I was trying to get my job back and have them investigate.
My discharge papers state box marked resigned which co-incides with my original claim of being co-erced into resigning by not signing the write up. Numerous letters state that I was not fired for not signing the write up but for "continued insubordination" of my alledged statement of refusing to do my job.
I in fact only stated once during a conversation that I wasn't being paid to do the cleaning they have a cleaning crew to do. Employer has taken out of context my statement and claim that I continue to repeat "not being paid to clean" as refusal to do my job.
This is not true, I mean why would I call HR to tell them such foolishness, I wanted to keep my job and told them I was forced into signing resignation and they accepted that and marked resigned when I picked up my last check.
Since there was no clear evidence of what my managers orders were( I wasn't specifically told to do anything) and it was unclear whether I was discharged for insubordination or for not signing the write up-the ALJ awarded benefits to me.

Now the burden of trying to prove that I did NOT repeatedly state that I wouldn't do my job is on my shoulders. In the transcripts my employer repeats that I did in fact say this but in my testimony I state that I did not.
Seems like a "he said, she said" case and I'm planning on using my discharge papers in my defense-the letter the employer wrote following my discharge that makes no mention of my "repeated refusal" and my statement in the transcript that I did not say anything as such.

Any other ideas? Your help is appreciated!



Nope .. just let everyone knows how it turns out for you Lisa.

Chris
Feb 28, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		AZ Unemployment Hearing
by: AZ-Me

I was terminated and when I asked why he said a letter would be sent to me.

When I got the letter it said nothing as to why. I applied and received benefits, but now they have filed an appeal.

I called in for the appeal and my old boss didn't show but his attorney got them a last minute postponement. My hearing is coming up soon.

I don't see how they could win, but will the initial decision and the fact they postponed last minute help me? And in the documents they gave to the courts have incorrect dates and they denied giving me a raise but I provided stubs saying other wise.

What do you think?




I can't think anything .. because I still don't know what you were fired for ..

I don't even know what the unemployment department said the reason was for allowing you the benefits .. but you do.

The postponement won't help you in anyway .. the initial determination is what is being appealed to a hearing for a FULL FACT FINDER .. so that doesn't help either.

I think you need someone to straighten you out about unemployment appeal hearings .. so you don't wind up having to pay back what you've received so far.

Unemployment hearings explore the facts through questions, testimony, and submitted evidence.

Case preparation is what helps.

Chris
Mar 01, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Arizona Hearing
by: Az-me

Chris,

I was terminated for misconduct related to the number of sales calls made in my last week of employment. The determination of DES to award me benefits was because my former employer could not provide sufficient evidence supporting any misconduct. With my job description it states that I maintain quotas and revenue goals, however none were provided to me. Also they submitted a document that I have never seen nor signed that he claims he gave me a week before I was terminated, and bases his decision to terminate my employment based on this document. The document outlines the number of calls that should be made in a day. However he had no way to see the number of calls I was making anyway because I was building the records database for the client management system we had just purchased a few weeks prior. there were also many discrepancies in the information they provided DES, such as my pay rate and date of termination. Also in my 90 day review he had laid out deadlines to complete certain tasks in which I was terminated a week after signing my 90 day review and was not given the opportunity to complete these tasks. In regards to the document he claims to have given me outlining the number of calls to be made in a day. I have never seen this document before and there is no proof that he gave me this document. What can I do, or what should I research to help me keep my benefits? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mar 01, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Preparing for a misconduct hearing in AZ
by: Chris - unemployment-tips

Hi AZ-me

What is the date on the document you didn't sign?

Is it before or after you termination?

Is there a place for your signature?

If so, what's there?

Here's what I think you are forgetting. It is the employer that has the burden to prove "willful misconduct" as defined by AZ.

When "job performance is the reason for a discharge generally speaking, an employer has to show a series of warnings about your performance in some respect. The need for this is to give you the opportunity to not only address your performance deficiencies as described by the employer in a write up, but to when the final warning comes .. to put you on notice that improvements must be made in your performance to avoid termination.

This is commonly referred to as making the employee aware of the fact that "their job is in jeopardy".

And every state is most interested in the "final incident" that made the employer believe they had no choice, but to terminate you because despite the "warnings" .. and the ever present argument that you were capable of complying .. you "intentionally" chose not to ..

I mean, what is the definition of willful .. if not deliberate.

Arizona unemployment does not have a precedent decision manual online for research .. at least, I haven't found it ..

But the most consistent thing about unemployment in any state is what misconduct is .. so take a look around this site to gain some insights .. into what pushes a decision one way or another.

States such as CA, NY, WI, MD, VA, IL, TX, NM, CO, MI, OH all have some sort of online resource which does interpret unemployment laws.

And I've linked to them all somewhere when I thought it to be relevant to do so.

I'm working on a new resource page .. but this is going to take me a day or a couple weeks .. who knows.

And as always .. if you want to talk to somebody about preparing .. I do offer consultations.

Another suggestion .. you might consider calling an AZ appeal office and asking them if they have a precedent manual which you could use to "acclimate yourself" in addition to the resources they provide on their appeal page.

I can't say for certain .. because Q&A's are never adequate to get all the details I would want, but it sounds like you might have a very winnable case.

I'd direct you my hearing rep page .. because I always think it is wise .. but when you go to the AZ appeal site .. you'll see they don't make it easy .. if you happen to have to pay the person representing you at a hearing.
Mar 01, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Hearing
by: AZ-Me

Chris,

I feel that I have a strong case as well. I am however nervous because as you said the resources in Arizona are extremely limited and I am a far cry from an attorney. I would love to hire someone however without any money to do so, it is difficult. I have spoken with three law offices and I have found none willing to take payments which blows me away. I am planning on representing myself at the hearing and if I have to file an appeal I can only hope that my tax return will be here so I can afford to hire someone.

As to the document, there did not appear to be a place to sign but either way he has no evidence to support that I received this document other than his word. Although I believe that I have a strong case and hope to win this appeal, if I have to appeal this are you available for hire in Arizona? If you are please let me know how to get in touch with you.

Over all I think that the biggest thing making me nervous is the fact that they have an attorney and I do not. I have the hearing soon and I will let you know how it goes. Any last minute tips?

Thanks,





Hi AZ-me,

No, I don't rep at hearings. But, I do help prep people, so they can represent themselves better .. because like I keep saying .. there's a reason it's hard for claimantsto find representation for unemployment hearings.

Also, I'm not an attorney .. of any kind.

Regardless, AZ requires non-attorneys to have a supervisory letter from an AZ attorney .. and that costs money.

Nonetheless, some people do think I'm a value at fifty dollars for an hour of coaching. ;-) I have testimonials to boot:)

My price includes reviewing documents in addition, which I do before we talk for an hour ..

Anyway, I'm curious how much it would cost for an attorney that you'd have to make payments .. is it over three hundred?
Mar 02, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		yeah baby yeah
by: sluggerbob

Fired for mis-conduct
Denied UI
2 1/2 hour- 2 part hearing
Me against my employer and 3rd party rep
I won.

Don't be afraid. Don't back down.

ps. This guy does some good work (wish I
would have found this site before)





Thanks Slugger! Would you say the same thing if you knew I was a woman:))
Mar 03, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Thanks Chris- I won my hearning
by: AZ-Me

Chris,

Thank you so much for your support and tips. I had my hearing this morning and received the decision today. I won the hearing for multiple reasons listed by the judge and she saw right through the bs of the document he tried to submit that I had never seen.

I do expect that they will appeal again to the board of appeals so if you could get me over your email address that would be great. $50 an hour is very reasonable especially now, knowing that you really care and seeing that you really know your stuff.

If they don't appeal I will let you know.

Thanks,




Ah .. but I DO NOT like to discuss board appeals.
I might know a lot about unemployment and can help people understand what is important to focus on for the first hearing .. Board appeals are more about procedural errors and require an ability to research case law .. I might be doing okay earning a living with this website .. but I can't afford to subscribe to a legal research website.

Anyway .. you slice it .. I would call board appeals "lawyer territory" ..

But I can tell you this .. the only thing extra you might want to do if the employer appeals is send in an affirmation letter.

This really amounts to the opposite of the appealing party's "legal brief" to support the appeal to the board of review.

I don't do this, but the hearing rep I happen to be referring people to might be able to write one up for you which you could submit as your own.

I have no idea how much this would cost, but understand .. just the ability to access legal research costs money.

I'll tell you what I used to have to do for employer wishing to appeal to a board.

I had to send it off to an in-house attorney to write an appeal .. or an affirmation letter when the claimant appealed a decision.

If you feel the need .. you can contact him to find out how much it would cost .. before you decide if it's worth the cost ..

IF the employer does appeal.

You'll find the email form to contact him if you look to the top of the left hand nav bar and click "hearing reps".

For now .. if I were you .. I'd just savor the victory:)

Chris
Mar 21, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		help in tn
by: Anonymous

I recently had my appeal for unemployment and my employer did not answer the phone they tried 3 numbers 6 times at two then after the 15 minute grace period the numbers were tried again still no answer so I gave my testimony of how she said she had told her tax people to put that it was lack of work and they put quit instead and my witness also heard what she had said and testified to what he heard.

well long story short i won my appeal.

What is the possibility that she will appeal it because i believe she told her tax accountant to put quit on my papers. I think she is twisted. Also just wanted to know what is the longest i'll have to wait for my back pay and can i still get paid while she is waiting on her appeal?





Hi,

You know, those questions you asked me are better answered by you.

You say she's twisted .. so prepare for it.

But first she'll have to get past the non-appearance issue.

If the current decision is vacated or reversed your benefits would be stopped .. at least that's when I think they are supposed to be stopped.

How long until you receive backpay .. call unemployment and find out .. it's purely an administrative function of the department. I suspect it's just a matter of changing the info in a drop down from denied to approved.
Mar 28, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Appeal to board of Review
by: James

I worked part time for an employer and had a flexible shift. The flexibility of my hours was due to agrement between me and my direct supervisor that if i notified him by 9:00 a.m. of the day needed that i would be coming in at a different time or not able to come in that day it was considered approved and not an infraction. I was approved for 2 weeks off for personal time. The day i was to return i ended up leaving late. I notified them of my situation and location stating i was heading back to town now. I did not say i was not coming to work. I was then called 30 minutes before my shift start fired stating not dependable also the reason giving to local office. Although i brought up that there was attendance agreement and i followed it on the day of my termination i was denied. I filed for appeal. During appeal both the hr manager and my supervisor admitted to the agreement and admitted that i notified him at 7:32 a.m. the hr manager changed reason fired to attendance said i told them not coming in and didn't show up on day i was to return. my supervisor read email during appeal and it simple mentions left late on the way back now. I was denied and in his decision letter he omits the evidence of the agreement, my following it, and all the dates and information he list are wrong, also he badgered me about what i did on my 2 weeks off, cut me off when cross examining the employer, and after asking employer if i notified him by 9:00 would it not count against me the employer doesn't answer so he asks a different question completely. I filed to board of review december 6,2010 the requested a copy of transcripts and sent in written argumetn on december 7, 2010. I recieved a copy of my transcipts march 21, 2011 and apparently have to send in another written argument if i want it to be considered. In my argument i point out from the hearing everything i have posted here plus more as well as every single false statement that is in the referee decision including him saying i sent email requesting time off july 2nd for two weeks was to return july 16. In actuality it was june 28,2010 approved the same day and i came in on the 29th and explained why to my supervisor. A fact they tried to pretend didnt happen until i question him about it. During cross examination i asked hr manager if she was aware of attendance agreement explained it in detail before she responed she stated yes. During my final remarks i made it a point to state that because the agreement was following no rule had been broken. Not until then during her final remarks did she change her answer to it was only if coming in late im sorry if i didn't make myself clear. Although she barely knew about the agreement besides on a previous write up when my supervisor had her put make sure he reports by 9:00 or considered next incidient on write up. What are my chances on the board of review making a decision in my favor?
Apr 12, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		i checked my status after my appeal and it says closed?
by: Anonymous

so i got denied for unemployment and i appealed it and no one showed up from my ex employer and now i checked the status and it says its closed does that mean i was denied. this is in florida by the way!



I have no idea what "closed" means unless it is in regards to the claim.

Whatever the status is with regard to the hearing decision .. you should have received a hard copy of the decision .. so anyone disagreeing with it can appeal.

I would think, if you won the hearing, you would now be receiving benefits.
Apr 25, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Employer appealed decision
by: Anonymous

In California. I had to appeal Edd decision for my benefits and my ex employer and I had a hearing and it was ruled in my favor due to a misunderstanding.

I told them I couldn't work under those circumstances anymore and something needed to change and my employer said that she would send me my check.

So the ALJ ruled it as a misunderstanding so I got my benefits.

Now my employer is appealing it and i want to know the chances of it being reversed against me.



Hi,

The ALJ ruled your separation was a misunderstanding?

I can't even speculate about chances .. because I don't know the details of the separation from the work, who appealed nor what was testified to or presented through documentation at the hearing .. nor the language of the ALJ decision .. nor the grounds or the written argument the employer will provide to the review board.

On second thought I could speculate, but that won't do much good if I'm wrong.

I suspect that you applied for unemployment saying you were discharged when you went to the employer trying to seek some kind of accommodation with a problem at work.

I suspect that the employer told the state you voluntarily quit.

And I suspect that the same position were taken by both you and the employer during the hearing.

But, what would have been more helpful .. would be if I could actually read the hearing decision and the employer's appeal of the hearing decision.
May 03, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		California
by: Anonymous

Adding to April 25th that is what happened.

I called edd stating that I was let go and the ex employer told them i quit.

The judge ruled it a misunderstanding because of my saying I can't work under these circumstances and instead of her saying ok, well what is going on, she proceeded to say "I'll mail you your check" with no further conversation.

The president of the company failed to call me to discuss what had happened.

I didn't want to lose my job, but there was a problem going on and they didn't want to resolve it due to it being a family business.

I took my problem to hr and he said there was nothing he could do, so after a morning of being yelled at in front of other employees, after lunch I wanted something to be done about it because it was not a sane working environment.

The only paper they submitted to the appeals department was the appeals paper with the statement.

She did not directly answer the question under oath about being fired because she was not fired.

The paper said it could take up to 12 weeks to hear back and i just wanted to know what the chances of them reversing the judgment.





Well, this isn't much more help than what you told me the first time.

I tell you I can't believe the EDD ruled in your favor due to a 'misunderstanding' and you again provide me with information from only your perspective .. and it's not even your appeal.

The review board on the other hand will be able to listen to the recording of the hearing, read the ALJ's decision, the employer's appeal and any written arguments they might be basing the appeal on.

Do you know anything about the content of these things.
May 10, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Trying to appeal
by: Anonymous

I quit my job because I couldnt tolerate hastle work enviroment any longer. Basicly I've been bullied around by couple of employees. They were telling another employees that my kid is not my husbands and is from some one else at work. One employee would take her breaks on my break time so I wont get a chance to go on my break.
Throwing work papers at my desk.
One employee were calling me names.
My personal things of my desk started missing so I had to request key for my cabinets and start locking it. I applied for two different positions in the last two years. I talked to my supervisor and a teamlead and a sinior about the issues.
I went on a personal leave for a couple of week and when I got back we were down to two employees in our department including me which give more opportunity to my co worker to bully me around.
I requested additional days off to extend my leave and my supervisor denied it. When I talked to HR about it, she stated that if supervisor doesnt aprove me being gone and Im not back at work they would have to start termination process. My unemployment is being denied stating that I didnt explore all reasonable solutions before I quit. What are my chances winning this if I try to appeal





Name of your state please.
May 21, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		How long does it take to know if I won the appeal?
by: Anonymous

In PA
I had my appeal on 5/11/11. I would like to know how long does the referee takes to make his decision? & who should I call to find out the status?

Thank You
Anonymous




If it were me .. I'd start by calling the appeal referee's office .. it's listed on PA notices of hearing.
May 21, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Trying to appeal
by: Anonymous

I'm in California.


What do you mean you're 'trying' to appeal.

Do you need some help?
Jun 04, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Can additional evidence be submitted to the Unemployment Insurance Appeal board?
by: Anonymous

I recently Won My NYS unemployment appeal hearing. The ALJ indicated I consistently and credibly testified to my case and that my former employer did not. The ALJ also indicated my former employer did not provide certain evidence to prove their claim and moreover did not dispute my testimony when I quoted several Company policies. If my former employer chooses to appeal further can they submit additional evidence to help support their claim? If yes, would I be made aware of any additional information submitted and accepted so I would be able to cross examine as I was able to do at the hearing?
The ALJ made it clear at the beginning of the hearing she would adjourn if additional information had to be gathered by both parties to which they did not request.




Appeals for review of hearing decision do not include presenting new testimony or documentation .. the board would have to remand the matter back to the lower level for that to happen.

It was a failure on the part of the employer to not ask for the adjournment so they could gather up what they needed to sustain their burden.

A mistake usually made by employees .. not employers.
Jun 04, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Trying to appeal
by: Anonymous

Meaning, I have not started my appeal process yet. I just want to know if I go with the appeal process what are my chances actually winning it?





I do not have enough detailed information about what you did prior to quitting to make a guess.

Except that I know you quit due to a hostile work environment or .. you quit by job abandonment when you failed to return from an approved leave.

Either way .. the important element is your proof of efforts to "PRESERVE THE EMPLOYMENT".

Or at least be able to prove why that would have been futile.
Jun 04, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		How much does it cost to hire a lawyer to represent me at unemployemnt insurance hearing?
by: Anonymous

Hi, my former employer in San Francisco has appealed the EDD decision to give me unemployment insurance benefits and I have to appear at a hearing now. I am wondering how much will it cost me to hire a lawyer to represent me at the hearing? Are there any other more cost -effective but as reliable options instead of hiring a lawyer?

Thanks



Well, first let me say, I don't know of any California unemployment lawyers.

But I have learned from California claimants that I have spoken to that the cost seems to range between seven hundred and fifteen hundred dollars and they found these "lawyers" and non-lawyers (sometimes law students) on Craigslist.

But the unemployment specialist I refer people to on this site .. also handles lots of CA hearings and is very experienced and charges somewhere around three hundred for hearing representation and can also write researched written arguments for board appeals.

Three hundred dollars for hearing representation is a common amount that state rules say can be charged .. when a cap is established via a reg that says fees must be approved.

It is this condition of capping fees and in some states, contingency for collecting a fee, that depletes the pool of those willing to represent claimants at hearings aside from "free legal aid".

Cost control companies are able to work around state rules .. because employers aren't paying the hearing fee cost .. it's included in the unemployment claims management services that they are being provided by the CCC's.

I know .. it more information than you asked for and it's biased to boot by my personal opinion of the state of affairs when it comes to hearing representation.
Jun 04, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Can additional evidence be submitted to the Unemployment Insurance Appeal board? Part 2
by: Anonymous

Follow up to previous question answered.....

Would my former employer be able to request a remand or an additional hearing to submit additional evidence? Would the appeal board approve such a request?

Thank you in advance for your feedback..



Hi,
That is usually the point of a board appeal .. a remand and remanded cases are usually de novo .. which simply means as if the first hearing never occurred .. so there is usually a vacate order too. (No, this is not legal advice, that you can only get from attorneys)

But this is working knowledge.

Whether they get a remand or not depends on not only hearing officer error, but their own possible failure to protect their right to due process .. which would include allowing the hearing to go forth with out requesting that a continuance or adjournment be granted .. during the hearing)

Here's what you could do though .. just to stay active in this. When you receive the paperwork from the state that says written argument can be submitted .. write one. It's called an affirmation argument as to why the employer's appeal is not valid.

It was common practice when I worked for my employer. I would receive claimant review appeals and then send it to an in house attorney to write the affirmation letter.
Jun 08, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		A needed answer
by: Anonymous

I won my unemployment appeal but the employer did not show up for my hearing over the phone, my question is how long do the employer has to file an appeal after I have won received back pay and I'm currently filing I'm located in the state of Illinois



What does it say on the hearing decision you received? It's the same amount of time whether you're an employer or an unemployment claimant.

If I'm not mistaken they have 30 days after the mailing date of the hearing decision to submit a 2nd stage appeal.
Jun 10, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Won an unemployment Appeal in Pa
by: Mike

Hello, I won my unemployment appeal against my employer yesterday. They were present and argued their case to deny my unemployment claim. I have three questions: When should I receive my back pay of unemployment since they ruled in my favor and with the employer being present at my case is it common for an employer to appeal a referee decision and how common is it to have them reverse a decision by a referee? I live in Pa. Thank you for your time.




I don't know when you will start getting benefits .. that is an administrative function of the department .. meaning I assume someone is responsible for getting the hearing decision and changing the status of your claim in a drop down box and then whatever they have to do to follow through on the method of payment you chose.

How common are employer appeals of hearing decisions?

More common than claimants, but not nearly as common as 1st stage appeals.

And since they were in attendance .. they would have to have a good argument that mistakes were made during the conduct of the hearing .. by the referee.

They have 15 days after mailing of the decision to appeal.
Jun 14, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Called for statement
by: Chelsea

A guy from the unemployment office called and asked me for my statement about being fired at my job. I got fired due to a "short change artist" and my money drawer ended up short. I told him that instead of giving me a warning or a wirte up like there suppose to they just when on and terminanted me. The guy told me that my employer had told him in there statement that during orientation when someone needs change to tell them to go to customer service and that was never told to me. My orientation was only 15 mins long, and they just threw me to the wolves and that was it. I told him that and he said i will have a decision in 5 to 7 days. How do you think this will go in my favor or there's. This was not an appeal he just called me after i signed up for unemployment like an investigation.



No way am I going to assign a percentage to your "chances".

What I know is that many companies at "orientation" have you sign a form acknowledging receipt of the employers rules and policies and therefore, I would insist the employer provide both your signed acknowledgment and a copy of the actual page out of the handbook with that particular procedural rule .. to tighten the case up.

Chelsea, did you sign such a form? Did the employer hand you a handbook? If you tell me no, I can only assume you are correct .. and then .. I'd tell you that the employer's chances of proving misconduct just slipped a several notches.
Jun 24, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		State of IL.
by: Ms.T

I was fired from my job for accessing my account at my desk through the internet.In which no one informed me that was against company policy so i had my hearing and it was not in my favor.I had not received the evidence against me until after the hearing. It showed that from my time of employment i had accessed my account from Aug.of 2010 until NOV.of 2010 and was terminated in March of 2011. However i testified that no one ever advised me of this policy. There was no objections.I have appealed to the board just want to know what my chances are?



On what grounds did you base your appeal to the board?

Was it a phone hearing?

Did you waive your rights with regard to the employer's documentation that you did not see? Did you make a request for continuance until at which time you could prepare to rebut the employer's documentation?

If it was an in person hearing .. did you view or request the state's file before the hearing?

Your question about what your chances are is not backed up with adequate information about what valid legal points you might have raised in your appeal for me to even start "guessing" what your chances might be?

Chris
Jun 28, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		THEY THINK THEIR GOD
by: mic

If these people want you off unemployment they will and can do it..They are their own judges...and they have goverment and employers backing them up..they are suppose to be unbiased, but please I didn't fall off the chicken truck recently...I was on unemployment until my employer sent in so many complaints they took me off of it...it doesnt matter to these people they have a job with benefits..............
Jul 18, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Should I inform the Court of Appeals, Arizona
by: Anonymous

I submitted my request for an appeal and found out that the person who terminated me was terminated shortly after giving statements on the phone hearing. Should I notify the courts of this? The transcripts and records are already in front of a judge and I was thinking that they should know about this, even if they do not contact this manager. What is your suggestion on this matter? Thank you for your response and time.





Hi,


I'm not a lawyer first of all, and since you didn't specify why the transcripts and records from an unemployment hearing are in front of a judge, you'd be forcing me to assume things I have no idea about. It's sort of like being dropped into the middle of a conversation without any idea of the subject being discussed.

But, I do wonder how and why your former manager's termination would be relevant to whatever the court appeal is about concerning your .. voluntary quit .. or termination .. which sounds like you were denied benefits because of the manager's testimony.

Did they lie?

If it's just to do with unemployment benefits .. I don't see how or why it would be relevant to your benefits.

My suggestion would be to discuss any real court level appeal procedure or rules of evidence with a qualified Arizona attorney.
Jul 19, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Re.Should I inform the Court of Appeals, Arizona
by: Anonymous

Yes, they did lie and because I am not attorney I did not get to ask questions that could have helped my case. My record is in front of a judge for consideration to reverse the denial of benefits. I believe telling the courts about this person termination from the company shortly after terminating me is crucial and could establish some doubt that this person lied about the information provided to the judge initially. This could help me get a new hearing or reversal of benefits. Maybe I am wrong. I was railroad at my hearing and legal aid was not available for some time after my hearing date had come and gone. Did this help? Thank you for your feedback.


No, it didn't.

What do you mean because you're not an attorney you didn't get to ask questions .. it's your right to ask questions of the employer witnesses.
Jul 22, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		State of Texas
by: Anonymous

Hello, Do you know how long it takes to get paid if the decision was reversed? I was denied, appealed and it was reversed.




No, not precisely. I see you're from Texas and TX, in my opinion has a very efficient unemployment department, but if it were me and I hadn't received the money including any backpay after I had filed my next claim and the payment date came and went without a payment .. I'd be calling someone to find out where the heck it is.
Aug 23, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		STATE OF TEXAS UNEMPLOYMENT HEARING
by: Anonymous

Today I had a phone hearing before the appeal tribunal. The employer did not call in. The appeal tribunal ruled the previous decision affirmed. The employer
also did not answer the initial
determination of benefits inquiry. I also won that. What are the chances the employer would win a new hearing.



Not very good. My former job began when I received a hearing notice.

The first page I checked, of any hearing notice was the issue page. I was looking for "timeliness" issues the employer might have to deal with .. and then I went about figuring out if I could prove good cause for any untimeliness.

If I couldn't .. I'd withdraw if it was the employer appeal. If it was the claimant appeal .. I simply noted that the employer would not attend the hearing.

If an employer failed to respond to the notice of claim filed and failed to attend a hearing based on their own appeal, I would think the only thing that might be good cause for not attending might be showing that the State of Texas was at fault for their non-response and now the non-appearance.

It happened, quite frequently, that a state sent all that paper they generate to an address other than the address of record filed with the state.

Was there an issue about the employer's failure to respond to the claim in a timely manner?

Chances of a further appeal aren't overwhelming, but then again .. the information to assess whether they have good cause or not to do so .. isn't really in our field of vision.
Aug 31, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		MI- Not Good Representation.
by: LT

I voluntarily quit my job Sept 2010 in MI., I explained my reason(s) in a 3 page letter and I was initially awarded benefits. Company challenged through ALJ and won a reversal. It is now with the board of review. My concern is, I feel I did not receive adequate representation by my attorney (each side is provided one)and I am afraid the reversal to their favor will hold because I don't think my case was conveyed properly. If I disagree with the Board of Review's findings should I just let it go or take it to the next level and state I didn't think my case was presented correctly and fairly? Thank you.





Hi LT,

I certainly cannot advise you about taking it to the next level if necessary, which would be court level.

Tell me why you weren't happy with your Michigan unemployment advocate?

Tell me on what basis you have filed a Michigan unemployment appeal to the board?
Sep 28, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Appealed Again
by: DCC

i lost my job in May for what my ex-employer is stating as failure to follow company procedures and policy. I was an employee for 10 yrs with zero write ups in my file. I filed for unemployement and was denied. I hired an atty and filed for an appeal. After the first hearing the case was postponed, and the new date was again postponed due to the judge being ill. we finally had the hearing and I won on grounds that it was a one time mistake. Now the company that i worked for is appealing the decision stating that the judges decision was unjust. This is in Kansas. What are the chances that my ex employer would win and this decision be overturned? Thank you for the advise.


Probably not good. Employer's frequently think a one time error make in good faith while performing a job was egregious enough to discharge someone.

It kills some employers when the hearing officer doesn't see it their way .. but this is really just common sense and the hearing officer is given fairly wide discretion to decide what was a common mistake .. and an egregious, willful, intentional act rising to the definition a state uses to determine misconduct.
Sep 30, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		advice
by: tony

I will try to keep mine short.
I am in colorado.
I was awarded my unemployment, the hearing officer basically indicated I was let go under discrimination.

Now the employer is appealing that decision.
Everything was flawless on my end, and the employer had nothing to say on the hearing.

Do I need to worry, or is this a ploy for them to get revenge.

They claimed I misused a company system, the system itself was a 3rd party system, and was never outlined in my job description.

There was 19 other people that did the same thing, and I was the only one let go for it, and the other 18 were only warned not to do it again.






I'd hardly call a board appeal that is a ploy .. maybe to make you sweat, something to worry about. It either has validity in it's written argument or it doesn't.

As I keep writing .. if you're going to make a valid attempt to change a claims department determination .. you should bring all your guns to the first hearing .. because further appeals are based on what the hearing officer did to err to reach a hearing decision.

But, I know of at least one CO hearing officer that get's his wrist slapped occasionally by the board because he's so employee bent and biased that a 5th grader could see the basic flaws in his findings.

Oct 13, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		N/a
by: Anonymous

The chances are good. my husband was denied at first for unemployment. he appealed and won. the employer appealed, it took like 6 month for them to come to a conclusion and the employer won the last time. my husband has to pay back over 9,000.Just to be on the safe side look for a job anyway.




Note from Chris: It's a mistake to give a blanket answer because each unemployment claim is really an island unto itself.
Oct 18, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		1st appeals hearing
by: KA in NY

I just had ny first unemployment appeal hearing. I requested the hearing based on the employer fighting my unemployment. At the hearing the judge dismissed the employers reps because they did not have representation from a company handling the appeal TALX is the company. I got to speak on behalf, I introduced my evidence that was sent to the courts and TALX prior to hearing. So my question is, will the employer appeal? will the judge rule in my favor based on my testimony only? and can I deny or request for dismissal of an appeal? and do ALJ's get overruled? I do not want to go through this again I was stressed and nervous during the appeal hearing.




Hey, it's NY and NY is what we called a three strike state in the unemployment biz (sorry, I know that's an oxymoron).

This means that it is really no problem for either party to request a reopening after failing to appear .. three different times before NY finally puts their hand up and makes non-appearing parties start showing good cause for not showing up.

NY dismisses without "prejudice" .. that's why it's so easy to reopen.

Trust me TALX knows this .. and it's pretty much S.O.P. to request reopenings when the decision isn't in favor of the employer when either the employer or their rep can't make it to the hearing.

It's ridiculous!!
Nov 01, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Unemployment appeals process
by: Anonymous

I was denied unemployment two years ago and have been going through the appeals process. I was initially denied through the unemployment appeals board and about a month ago learned that the Oregon Court of Appeals reversed and remanded for reconsideration. They sent it back to the unemployment appeals board. Do you know anything about how this works in Oregon and what my chances might be?




I will assume you are being completely clear about what level they sent it back to for reconsideration.

But confusion seems to abound about the appeal process and who does what .. and when they do it.

There are lower level hearings .. also called tribunal hearings presided over by one hearing officer, referee or whatever the state calls the hearing judge. When someone appeals a "claim dept. determination" .. this is the hearing you end up at which results in a "hearing decision"

There are board of review panels which review the records created at the lower level hearings. This is still a part of the unemployment administrative appeal process.

And of course as you know, the next step is a bonafide real court appeal.

So, if I were to take the little information you provided at face value without benefit of reading the court order .. I would say they remanded the matter back to the board so they could reconsider their decision to affirm or .. remand the matter back to the lower level for either a new de novo hearing .. or a continuation of the first hearing to gather more information which they should have gotten or allowed in the first place.

The appeal process basically works the same in most state, but not all and that's why I provide links such as Oregon Unemployment Appeal Info
Nov 03, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		GA unemployment board of review
by: tony w

im fighting UI. I won my 1st two appeals. My job did not show up for the first hearing and i was granted UI benefits. My job then appealed stating that they never recieved notice of meeting. I then had a 2nd appeal hearing and my job showed up presented there evidence saying that i was fired because off attendance points and that i didnt properly call off each time.(false) However after hearing both parties the hearing officer released a decision still in favor of me recieving benefits.

SO now my job has appealed a 3rd time and this time its with the judicial board of reviews. I served the two parties and when i went to court no one showed up and the judge said i didnt properly serve the two parties for court. SO therefore he held the case as pending and now i have properly served each party by the sherriff and now have a court date for later this month.

It had been nearly 3months since my last UI payment and i need to know how should i feel about this situation. Should i be worried or should i feel confident because i won my first 2 appeals!

pleas help -God Bless




If you have a lower level hearing decision allowing you benefits .. I do not understand why you are not receiving benefits.

A board appeal is not enough to suspend your benefits .. The board must first vacate or reverse the lower level hearing decision now.

And I have no idea why you served anyone .. what for?
Dec 02, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		after the appeal
by: Anonymous

(TEXAS) I was originally denied unemployment. I appealed and won.. My only question is after I have won the appeal, how long is it going take to receive payment. Are they going to wait to see if the employer will try to appeal? I just got the decision today.



Hi,
They can't or at least, aren't supposed to do that .. although I know FL tries to do that.

You won and before they could stop benefits .. the employer would not only have to appeal to the board of review .. but the board would have to review and either reverse the hearing officer or issue an order vacating the decision and remand the matter back down to the lower level for another hearing .. that does happen.

So much so, that I personally sat on my benefits .. just in case .. even though I knew their appeal was hopeless .. cuz you just never know .. I've seen weirder things happen.
Dec 05, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		no date yet /ca/uni
by: Anonymous

Denied benefits, filed for appeal, been two mo’s still waiting for date, been with company 6 years,
Company decided to do annual backgrounds , HR was sending everyone a form so they could go ahead and do the checks, they were going alphabetically by last name, from 09/01/11 was M through Z , the letter was sent to my house, this was the first time I heard about the backgrounds , I’m in the field a lot , we don’t see are manger much, in 2006 /2007 I got a misdemeanor it was not work related, I told a manager back then of the charge, he said don’t worry about it they only look at felons , I found out he did not document anything to my file that year, I’ve had 7 managers since when I told the interviewer over the phone she wrote it like this just happen this year , UNI said I was denied for breaking a reasonable rule. I’ve been emailing HR to send me Jason the manager last name and contact info so I can get hold of him, also im asking for my personal file from HR, but so far no word from them. With the evidence I received from UNI I don’t see anything from my company only what I said to the interviewer.



Question: Did the company change the rule about employment from felonies to misdemeanors? Did they notify you of this?

I mean, it's not like they can prove you lied on your job application .. can they?
Dec 06, 2011
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		What are my chances/
by: Anonymous

(California) I worked part time for a home health agency (which required me to have my own transportation) but I had to resign due to the fact that my I no longer had transportation due to a finacial hardship caused by the job.


They offered me a full time position if i quit my other part-time job. I put myself as an "on call" employee at he other job in hopes of obtaining a full time position with the home health agency. I informed them of this and was still never given a full-time position. Then, they would return my timesheets due to mistakes made on my charting (which was computerized) and failed to email me an audit sheet to complete before the due date because they said if they emailed it , it would take too long. i wouldn't get paid for a month for patients that i had seen months ago and already submitted the paperwork for. I told them that I no longer had transportation and was told that they would reassign all of my patients to other nurses because i didn't have a car. I need to at this time look for full time employment that does not require my own transportation and that I can use public transportation until i can get my own. I filed for UI benefits and was denied. I filed and appeal and have a hearing date approaching soon (by phone). What do you think my chances are of winning my appeal?



Do you have that offer of full-time work in writing?

Quitting Due To Transportation Problems in CA?
Jan 01, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		hereing set for 01/06/12
by: Anonymous/CA /


Chris ,I’ll try this again , was hired feb 2005 , oct 2006 I got a misdemeanor so I was working already for almost two years , I told Jason my manager at the time about the misdemeanor , as I stated before he told me not to worry they only look at felonies,
I finally received my personal file, between 2005 and 2007 there no history not even my reviews are in it between though times, so the managers at that time never bothered to input history or reviews nothing, I just want to say there is a lot of missing things that should have been inputted in my file, for instance customers compliments and the [I know it] forms we sign at meetings,
I attempted to find Jason to be a witness for me he was let go in 2007 and I spent money on those background how to find people via computer but was unable to find Jason, I wanted him to testify that we had that conversation in 2007, as I read through my personal file I found HR documented why I was let go , there were many subjects they could have check in the involuntary separation box, they chose integrity is the reason why I was let go , not what I thought why I was let go , I told the interviewer on the phone a week after I applied for UNI the reason why I was let go I assumed it was for background check I had know idea it was for integrity , they did not check the box background check, they check integrity and it was signed by HR department , today is the first of January and I go to herring on the 6th of January do you think you could email me what you might think before the 6th , oh!! I was suppose to go to EDD close to my home town but I was getting nervous for an a appointment, so I called and told them its been twelve week already , come to find out they split the herrings with other areas because they are so overwhelmed , my herring is near Baskerville ca 250 miles away , if I did not call them who knows how long I would have waited for the date , they thought they would do it over phone , I think being there in person is best , but 250 miles hmm,

To answer your question did they notify me of rule changes, no, not that I can remember and if we signed anything its not in file,the only thing in there is when i was hired i signed a paper a [normal formality] that the company has the right to do background or credit checks at any time, you see Chris at the time another company merge with are company and a lot of things were changing,




How did your hearing go?
Jan 11, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		fired for being on the phone
by: Anonymous

i was fired for being on the phone at work but it was on my break and no one was around i had to take the call because my son was a baby and he didnt have day care any more i had my hearing today should i be worried
Jan 12, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Misconduct, Denied UI, appeal hearing by phone
by: Anonymous

I am wondeeing why my old boss stated under oath (twice) that I made only $15 an hour when in fact, I made $20 an hour. I live in Illinois. Is this considered perjury? I brought up the fact that he was lying and inconsistent with his statement and wonder if this helps my case? I am still awaiting a decision in regards to my appeal.



Hi,
Did your rate of pay have anything to do with the reason for separation from work?
Jan 31, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Won my hearing, now there trying to appeal
by: Anonymous

I won my hearing in Dec. and now I recieve a letter saying there appealing it. It says they will decide and let me know but I was wondering how hard it is for a company to file a second appeal? If for some chance then win, do u have to repay the unemployment? Thanks so much, by the way this is in Missouri.



Yes, you usually have to repay if they are able to get the board to reverse .. or if it's remanded and the hearing decision is vacated and you lose the "new" lower level hearing.

Do you know on what basis the employer is pinning their board appeal?

Chris
Feb 13, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Hello
by: Anonymous

I won my appeal on Jan 13th 2012, for EUC08 benefits. On Feb 10th I called to ask when I am getting paid cause this has been ongoing scince Oct. After being put on hold the woman came back and told me that I will not be getting my money cause the appeal office made a mistake. Now the time has come and gone for them to appeal the decision but they said that didn't matter and I would not get my money. I am very upset that apparently they can just do what they want and make up the rules as they go. I need to know if they can just do this without following the rules. If not what do I have to do, I will hire an attorney without hesitation. By the way I am in NJ, I had my regular UI run out and they said I didn't have enough weeks/money to get EUC benefits but I did. Again can they just do this???
Feb 15, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Appeal Hearing Tomorrow....
by: Anonymous

Have a hearing tomorrow from former employer alleging my "gross" misconduct of company resources and equipment. I had worked for the company for 10 years and never received a memo of record, a verbal, or letter of counseling from employer. As a matter of fact, all of my Performance Appraisals are Excellent and Outstanding. However, I have used the employers computer for other use often during those past 10 years. What are chances of winning. Located in State of Maryland?
Feb 17, 2012
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starstarstarstarstar 		I won. Now What?
by: Angel in California

I won my unemployment appeal against Walmart today. The administrative judge ruled in my favor because there was no credible proof I was terminated for 'misconduct'. By 9am the ALJ had alreay seen two cases against Walmart!! Walmart had failed to appear nor did their unemployment representation goons, TALX, ugh! The judge told me I would receive notice of appeals next week. I represented myself at the hearing since I could not afford representation, I'm in Ca,Btb...

I have been doing a lot of reading about Walmart and unemployment and at this point I am really hard up for my backpay check since I cannot afford to live off welfar aide. Well i found that my award, I will be bringing home 500.00 a month. Which is barely enough to cover the cost of rent. Before I was fired I brought home that same amount, bi-weekly!

I have read on several websites walmart has been able to manipulate the amount of an umemployment insurance award, since they have a high employee turnover rate. Does this make sense? I hate everything wal,art spews about fair prices by screwing over everyone else along the way. Anyway, that is the cost of business. I want to know if I can successfully contest my award amount. How is that even determined? please help, The Harrowing Unemployment Game.




Hi,

Probably not now. Contesting a weekly benefit amount is actually what I would call appealing the monetary determination.

In CA, I think they call it the "award letter".

Chris

Proud boycotter of Walmart since .. well since I first decided supporting local economies is more than hiring the locals at a slashed living wage.

And I try to buy American made .. always.
Feb 17, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Re: I won. Now what?
by: Angel, Fresno CA

Thank you Chris. I have to thank you again since I had to disprove misconduct had taken place which the judge really took to. Which you have a lot of information about. I have found the entire website very supportive and thank you for your quick response. Now I know I have more work to do. big box stores are not the bomb dot com.



PS, check the deadline for appeal of the monetary.
Feb 24, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		I won first battle, now what?
by: Anonymous

I am from florida, and after reading everything here, I am alittle afraid that Walmart will appeal my reversal as well.
What are the chances that they do this, and how often do they win? They were present for the 1st appeal over the phone..............what next do I have to look un-forward to?



About 100 percent if the stories are true.

Presence at the first hearing and still losing requires knowing if there are any appealable points in the record to get a remand.

Personally, I think it's Talx that represents Walmart at unemployment hearings .. and you'll just have to believe me on this .. some employers insist on appealing whether there's merits to appeal on or not. It's like a scatter gun approach to try to deny as many claims as possible.

FL has some sort of online function to check up on whether an appeal has been received or not.

Keep an eye on it .. but try to relax now and make sure you stay in compliance with all the changes FL has made with regard to the job search.
Feb 27, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Won My Appeal with AJD, now my employer is appealing that
by: Anonymous

I was fired at the end of last year for absences.
The day I got fired,I was sick, in the hospital for 2 days, and provided documentation stating such.
I provided this documentation at my hearing.
The employer failed to send the judge proper documentation regarding attendance policies, any write ups, ect. The judge did allow a 'read in'from my employer in regard to anything in their attendance policy which was relevant to proving their case. The information was read in.
The next day, I received a letter saying that the judge reversed the initial decision and that I was entitled to receive benefits.

The following week, I received notice from my employer that they were appealing the judges decision. The notice included their attendance policies, two write ups. I know they sent me this documentation because they are required to send it to the other party. I have not heard anything from UI regarding my employers wanting to appeal the decision.
My question is, the burden of proof was on my employer at the initial AJD hearing. They did not provide any documentation at my hearing!!!. How can they give new information now? Some of the paperwork looks 'fishy'. I am so nervous. I have been to hell and back the past few months.

I am praying to God that this is over soon. My question: What is the likelihood that the appeals board or review board will take this information from my employer when it wasn't provided at the hearing?? It doesn't seem fair or just. BTW I am in Indiana. Thanks for all you do, Chris.



Did you happen to get the email I sent you explaining what the chances are?

Chris
Mar 04, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Writing a brief and very confused on something
by: Heather

I'm trying to write a brief for the common wealth court of PA and can't find anywhere how to write a good "Statement of Scope and Standard of Review." This is for my unemployment appeal as first the referee ruled in my favor, then the board decided to rule against me. So now I'm at the Common Wealth Court.


That's because it's not the state's responsibility to provide training for you to do something lawyers usually do.

The only place I know of to find that basic knowledge you're looking for is case law associated to unemployment and possibly find .. maybe through the board itself a copy of their standards for review.

You can search for Pennsylvania unemployment decisions here.

Read enough decisions and you'll find that they are always referencing what a board can and cannot do when reviewing a case.

You might also try to find the administrative rules of procedure.
Mar 04, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Still have questions from Indiana
by: Anonymous

This is the girl from indiana who wrote about being sick and getting terminated. The board of reviews is looking at my case. I won my appeal but the employer is appealing that.
I never recieved the email from you, regarding what my employers chances are of winning their appeal of the AJD decision. If you could PLEASE help I would be so very thankful!!!! Thanks for all that you do, Chris!




Hi Indiana girl, I apologize, I looked for the email I sent, but without a date to narrow my search .. it proved to be too much.

Why don't you send me another email .. so I can see your email address that might help, as I can't see email addresses from those that leave submissions and comments here on the website
Mar 10, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		response to feb,27
by: hello

I am going through almost the same thing. I wrote a letter to commissioner. They vacated and remanded the appeals referee decision.

I was receiving benefits then they stopped. Don't give up its a process I have lost a lot of sleep over this... but I'm trusting and beleiving it will pay off in the long run.

If someone over turns a lower court decision you are close to your breakthrough the good thing new evidence can be brought forth.
Mar 16, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		unemployment appeal in illinois
by: screwed big time

In early Dec I was taken down to HR by my department head. They stated that there was some discrampancy regarding a drop that I made. I was suspended pending an investigation. Long story short I received a letter from my former employer stating that I had been fired not for theft, but because I did not cooperate with the company's investigation. I filed for unemployment and was denied. So I filed an appeal. During the appeal my former employer as well as my attorney were present. My employer claims that he called in for a meeting which I agreed to attend the next day and I never attended. My employer claims to have called me when I didn't show up to this fictious meeting that I was unaware of. The judge asked my former if they left a message and he said no. After the hearing my lawyer called and stated that he thought the hearing went well and it sounded like my former employer was trying to railroad me. Well about a week later I received a letter stating that I was denied. The letter basically stated that it was a credibility issue and it was basically their word against and they believed theirs. Now I have to file a claim with the board of the review. I just received a letter stating that their decision could take up to 120 days. In the meantime this totally I have 2 kids no income my car has been repoed I'm about to loose my apartment and they want me to wait 120 days. This is a really difficult situation for me. I have been gainfully employed since I was 15 years old. Does anyone have any suggestions there has to be something I can do. Please help



Hi,
What state are you in? I know CA has a form you can fill out pleading financial hardship to move you up in the scheduling of the lower level docket.

However, don't get freaked out over that 120 maximum they are stating. It hasn't yet been 120 days and since the burden was the employers to PROVE! falling back to a credibility decision about who is telling the proof seems contrary to the underlying purpose of unemployment benefits and a possible thing that may be found in a states unemployment law called "liberal construction" which in essence means that when in doubt .. the statutes are supposed to be construed liberally in favor of the employee.

But then .. I'm not a lawyer and I'm not giving you advice .. just trying to calm you down enough so you can think this through clearly.
Mar 16, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Sorry Screwed, I didn't notice you're trying to get Illinois Unemployment Benefits
by: Chris - Unemployment-tips

Oops I should of given you the link to the IL Unemployment Insurance Law Handbook.
Mar 20, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Referee Decision Appealed
by: Anonymous

I had a hearing on Jan. 25th, 2012, I attended the hearing as well as both owners of the company I worked for. I have left the company due to the one owner being verbally abusive to me. I had tried to rectify the situation several times over the course of a year, and had emails showing that I tried. I even had the one owner testify that he knew I was working overtime and not being paid for it! I just received a notice March 19, 2011 that they are appealing the decision. They "claim" they never got the determination until the beginning of March. I had received mine 2 days after the hearing! I'm wondering what the chances of the decision being overturned are. The abusive employer was there to testify, as well as his partner. I did take evidence to prove my claims.





Clearly, the employer must have two issues now.

1. They didn't like the hearing officer's decision (claims depts. issue determinations) and ..

2. The board appeal is late and they are offering ther "excuse" for the late filing.

So, let's assume the worst and that the board doesn't dismiss the appeal for being untimely.

The question remains, What grounds is the employer appealing the hearing officer's decision on?

Did they provide a reason for believing the hearing officer's decision was in error yet?

It may come a bit later, as I keep saying .. an appeal letter is not the argument.

At the board level .. the argument is usually a written point by point outline of the hearing officer's errors .. supported by a precedent decision or two ... or three.
Mar 30, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Unemployment denied, child diagnosed with disability
by: Anonymous

i worked for a company in the state of Michigan for a little over 4 months....throughout my time of employment, my daughter started to have major issues in school related to what eventually became the basis for my child's evaluations and diagnosis. My daughter had several dr appts and her school completed daily journal entries regarding her unmanageable behavior. I alerted my direct mgr and her boss of the incident when i received the autism diagnosis for my child. I was among the top performers at my job, as it was a sales position, even considering the issues I had with my child. In my place of work, they typically did not excuse absences, so having to take my child to appts, I found myself in attendance trouble. I received only one warning, listed as a final warning although the policy states a verbal and written warning are given first. Two of the dates listed on the final warning were actually days I had prior approval to be off.
I was denied unemployment due to misconduct and had to protest a determination. They issued a redetermination upholding the denial decision. I appealed the redetermination so that I could have a hearing.

I had representation at the hearing. I came prepared with all documentation, but the employer did not show physically or by phone. I answered a series of questions related to my last day of employment and why I left early that day. I advised the ALJ that I received approval from my mgr to leave early and that the two days following I missed were in relation to why I had been given permission to leave early the day prior. . I was fired by phone after the mgr apologized for having to fire me given my circumstances. She told me to come pick up a letter of recommendation and the rest of my things.

I guess I'm concerned because the employer didn't show and I was really prepared to destroy their credibility. I didn't get that opportunity because they were not present...so it makes me wonder what's going to be different about the hearing than the protest I made? I was not asked for any of the documents I brought to the hearing to prove my case.

By the way, my representation felt very good about how the hearing went, but don't they all? My hearing was less than 15 mins in length.
Mar 30, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		If your employer is smart they won't appeal when the winning hearing decision arrives
by: Chris - Unemployment-tips

Hi,

If nothing else, your case shows that the unemployment department makes errors in determining whether someone is entitled to benefits or not.

Whether I would personally, call what happened to you an error is a different conversation regarding my opinion about how even state unemployment departments employ the same use of attrition as they accuse and blame unemployment cost control companies of using.

From my perspective, the reason your employer might not of shown up for the hearing is because they decided to play it safe, as I would of recommended a do not attend if I still did what I used to do.

If they did show up and try to sustain their burden of proof .. they might of actually provided testimony regarding the fact that they fired you despite knowing you became a member of a protected class when your child was diagnosed with autism.

How easy might it be for their actions and testimony to of been interpreted by a disability attorney, as a form of disability discrimination worthy of civil pursuit .. only an attorney would know.

At least, this is my non-legal employee take on the unemployment hearing non-appearance of your former employer.

The reason I think the hearing lasted so briefly ..

You were fired for attendance and the employer is the one that has to sustain that burden of willful misconduct at an unemployment hearing.

Aside from a pleasant unexpected break from cold and calloused unemployment ideologies, I wouldn't expect any employer to stay away from a hearing if a child only had an intermittent illness for four months, but you are now the caregiver to a child with disability and another federal act aside from FMLA was drug into the picture.

I suspect they just wanted to lose you before any possibility of FMLA kicking in, but never protested your unemployment beyond the initial response to the notice of claim filed and the first adjudication.

Aside from reasoning why the employer wasn't there to rebut anything you had to say .. your documents probably weren't needed to convince the hearing officer the employer fired you for a reason .. not considered misconduct .. which is in fact the employer's burden of responsibility to prove.

Did you use the MI advocacy program for representation? Michigan is the only state in the country, that I'm aware of that has such a program.

Other than this .. I think you're home free as long as you're able and available for work .. even if they are stupid enough to appeal to the board of review with some good cause reason for their non-appearance .. and that is the first issue that would have to be addressed at any new hearing.
Mar 30, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		reply
by: Anonymous

thank you!! i actually just received the decision from the hearing in the mail. they reversed the denial!!!
Mar 31, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		RE: Appeal
by: Anonymous

Referee Decision Appealed
by: Anonymous

I had a hearing on Jan. 25th, 2012, I attended the hearing as well as both owners of the company I worked for. I have left the company due to the one owner being verbally abusive to me. I had tried to rectify the situation several times over the course of a year, and had emails showing that I tried. I even had the one owner testify that he knew I was working overtime and not being paid for it! I just received a notice March 19, 2011 that they are appealing the decision. They "claim" they never got the determination until the beginning of March. I had received mine 2 days after the hearing! I'm wondering what the chances of the decision being overturned are. The abusive employer was there to testify, as well as his partner. I did take evidence to prove my claims.





Clearly, the employer must have two issues now.

1. They didn't like the hearing officer's decision (claims depts. issue determinations) and ..

2. The board appeal is late and they are offering ther "excuse" for the late filing.

So, let's assume the worst and that the board doesn't dismiss the appeal for being untimely.

The question remains, What grounds is the employer appealing the hearing officer's decision on?

Did they provide a reason for believing the hearing officer's decision was in error yet?

It may come a bit later, as I keep saying .. an appeal letter is not the argument.

At the board level .. the argument is usually a written point by point outline of the hearing officer's errors .. supported by a precedent decision or two ... or three.

They are claiming the referee erred in his judgement because I did not offer any proof that it was a hostile/abusive work environment. That being said, I did cross examine the company's witness/co-owner, and submitted emails as evidence showing conversations with the co-owner stating that it was unacceptable behavior and him responding that he would speak with the owner about it. Also had them admit they refused to pay OT hours worked by me. They also in the appeal claim that there were 5 other ppl in the office that did not find it abusive.(I believe they had ample time to testify and bring those other employees in as witnesses.) They never once in the hearing argued that it was not abusive, only that it was a stressful environment which they alleviated by hiring another person. I never claimed it was to stressful, I stated," I quit due to the abusive actions of the owner".
From what I can tell, the employer in his appeal form, interpreted the decision incorrectly.
Mar 31, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Referee Decision Appealed by: Anonymous
by: Chris - Unemployment-tips

Any new questions regarding "what are the chances of a board appeal" .. Please Click the link that begins with Join in at the very bottom.

I've turned this blog section back on to take new questions as commenting would be more useful if confined to speaking to the person that posed the original question.


But here's my answer to Referee Decision Appealed
by: Anonymous.


If I were going to argue that the hearing officer erred when determining who was most credible during the hearing, something they are given wide discretion to judge .. who's telling the truth) I think I'd want some case or another to go along to support exactly how the error was made ..

However, this being said .. what if they do get lucky and the board remands the matter back to the referee level .. well then, I say welcome to the world of unemployment benefits.

There's no telling from the amount of information here to say with any certainty, what will happen.

Only that hearing decision are more difficult to undo at the board level than departmental determinations are at the lower hearing level (referee level in PA).
Mar 31, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		I won my hearing in Kentucky.. now my employer is appealling the decision... i havent even rexieved mt first check?
by: Anonymous

I took a medical leave from work in July of last year. My leave ran out before my doctor would release me to work. Long story short, I reapplied for my job once I was released to perform this job. I was considered voluntary quit and was not rehired. I was denied UI and appealed this. My former employer and myself both attended the hearing. They did not enter any evidence and did not call any witnesses. I won the hearing. Now ive received a letter saying the employer has appealled that decision. The letter doesn't say why they have filed an appeal, and I cant imagine why they would seeing as during the hearing, they practically agreed with everything I said? How worried should I be? I have two young children on my own that I'm trying to support and have been searching and searching for a job. Ive never filed UI before now and I'm scared that I'll do something wrong? I would appreciate any advice or comments.
Apr 12, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Employeer Appealing Results of Hearing
by: Richard

My wife was fired from her job because as a store manager in a dry cleaning business because she issued four in store credits to customers who were unhappy. The company states that all claims have to be approved by the corporate office. The four claims were over a three year period and all four combined totaled less than $105.00. The company admitted that she submitted over 60 claims properly during the same time period. She as a store manager thought she had the ability to handle a few small claims at store level. The company in the hearing admitted that this policy was not a written anywhere. Not in the employee handbook and not in any operational manuals. She was fired without any warnings being issued. The employer believes that issuing the credits is the same as stealing. She won the appeal hearing because good faith errors are not misconduct. Also she was not given any warnings.

Now the employer has appealed. They submitted a for page letter which does nothing but throw mud at my wife. They again are calling it stealing. They said she was hiding the four claims in a secret drawer. They actually when in her file cabinet in a file folder marked customer problems. They claim she should have known the policy because of training and memos. But they did not enter a single memo into evidence at the hearing.

Should I respond to their letter or just remain silent? If I should respond should I address every point the employer makes in their appeal letter?
Apr 12, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Should You Write an Affirmation Letter?
by: Chris - Unemployment-tips

Hi Richard,

You do have the right to submit an affirmation letter or written argument.

The fact that they raised this up to a level they call theft .. wasn't really supported. I think the employer would need a bit of good luck for there appeal to work.

This isn't legal advice.


As for what I think I'd do .. I'd just sit quiet.

Why?

You didn't mention that the employer is appealing based on some procedural error made by the hearing officer prior to or during the hearing.

An example of a procedural error, that may fit here and be relevant is if the employer asked for a continuance so they could have additional time to to procure those documents they should have submitted prior to a phone hearing or even bring with them to an in person hearing.

This is the easiest way to prove misconduct.

But, since you didn't mention anything like this, I would expect the hearing decision to stand when the board reviews the appeal, with or without an affirmation letter.

Proceeding with an unemployment hearing, without making a request for a continuance and then attending without the evidence or witnesses you need, causes unemployed people to lose hearings they could win .. if they'd only prepared for the hearing.

Same goes for employers.

However, claimants rarely ask for continuances so they can prepare.

I was trained to advise employers that it's better to not attend hearings until you got all your ducks in a row.

Requesting postponements prior to a hearing is a strategic move until you get your quacks in order.

Reason being, you now stand a better chance of appealing a hearing decision and requesting a reopening because of a good cause request for postponement.

Lesson: It's easier to get a reopening when you have good cause not to attend, than it is to try to appeal on why the findings of hearing officer are erroneous.

Hearing officer are given wide discretion to make that decision based on what the parties bring to the hearing and ignorance isn't good cause.

I think this is what the employer may of failed to understand .. or they simply thought they could win by just slinging mud and accusations .. because that does work often enough to try it.

When an employer chooses to discharge someone, the burden of proof is assigned to them as the moving party and their job at the hearing is to prove through credible evidence and direct testimony, that the good cause to discharge was that the employee is in fact due to intentional or knowing misconduct.

The fact that they are now slinging mud in an appeal to the board .. isn't what I'd call valid reasoning for a board appeal .. so I'd stay quiet. (Haha .. I'll bet you now think that's one of the hardest things for me to do by now:)

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